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Re:Can we rule out near-term AGI? [video] by emtel on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:08PM (#18407801)
I think a lot of people who are emphatic that AGI is a long way off are saying so out of an allergic reaction to the hype, rather than due to sound reasoning.

(And let me be clear that none of this is an argument that AGI is near. I'm saying that confidence that it is far is unfounded.)

First, there are many cases in science where experts were totally blindsided by breakthroughs. The discovery of controlled fission is probably the most famous example. This shouldn't be surprising - the reason that a breakthrough is a breakthrough is because it adds fundamentally new knowledge. You could only have predicted the breakthrough if you somehow knew that this unknown knowledge was there, waiting to be found. But if you knew that, you'd probably be the one to make the breakthrough in the first place.

Second, most claims about the impossibility of near-term AGI are totally unscientific. By that, I mean that they aren't based on a successful theory of falsifiable predictions. What we'd want, in order to have any confidence, is a theory that can make testable predictions about what will and won't happen in the short term. Then, if those predictions turn out to be true, we can gain confidence in the theory. But this isn't what we get. What we get is people saying "We have no idea how to do x, y, and z, therefore it won't happen in the next 50 years". I don't see any evidence that people were able to predict even the incremental progress we've seen say, two years out. The fact is that when someone says "it'll take 50 years" that's just sort of a gut feeling, and people will almost certainly be making that same prediction the year before it actually happens.

Third, I think people have too narrow a view about what they imagine AGI might look like. People tend to envision something like HAL, that passes Turing tests, can explain chains of reasoning, and has comprehensible motivations. Let's consider the case of abstract reasoning, which is something thought to be very difficult. We tried and failed for decades to build vision systems based on methods of abstract reasoning, e.g. "detect edges, compose edges into shapes, build a set of spatial relationships between those shapes, etc". But humans don't use abstract methods in their visual cortex, they use something a lot more like a DNN. The mistake is in thinking that because the mechanism of successful machine vision resembles human vision, therefore the mechanism of successful machine reasoning must resemble human reasoning. But its quite possible that we'll simply train a DNN by brute force to evaluate causal relationships by "magic", i.e. in a way that doesn't show any evidence of the sort of step-by-step reasoning humans use. You can already see this happening - when a human learns to play breakout, they start by forming an abstract conception of the causal relationships in the game. This allows a human to learn really really fast. But with a DNN, we just brute force it. It never develops what we would consider "understanding" of the game, it just _wins_.

Sorry the third point was so long, let me summarize: We think some things are hard because we don't know how to do them the way that we think humans do them. But that doesn't serve as evidence that there isn't an easy way to do them that is just waiting to be discovered.

Re:Can we rule out near-term AGI? [video] by roh0sun on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:22PM (#18407928)
Worth considering these two points.

Inteligence is not one dimensional as is evolution => https://backchannel.com/the-myth-of-a-superhuman-ai-59282b68...

Silicon based intelligent machines might not energy efficient => https://aeon.co/essays/intelligent-machines-might-want-to-be...

Re:Can we rule out near-term AGI? [video] by seagreen on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:49PM (#18408178)
Why do people keep reposting that first article? I encourage you to reread it with a critical eye.

A choice quote:

In contradistinction to this orthodoxy, I find the following five heresies to have more evidence to support them.

Intelligence is not a single dimension, so “smarter than humans” is a meaningless concept.

Humans do not have general purpose minds, and neither will AIs.

This is awfully similar to "On the Impossibility of Supersized Machines" (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.10987.pdf).

EDIT: Re: energy efficiency: the problem is that humans are too energy efficient. Your brain can keep functioning after 3 days of running across the Savanna without food, which is (a) awesome, and (b) not really helpful nowadays. The cost of this is that you can only usefully use a little energy each day, say 4 or 5 burgers at most. AGI prototypes will usefully slurp in power measured in number of reactors.

Re:Can we rule out near-term AGI? [video] by emtel on Thursday November 08, 2018 @03:13PM (#18409545)
On the first article, if you believe that a human is smarter than a chimp, and a chimp is smarter than a snail, then it raises the question of whether entities smarter than humans are possible. I suppose it might be difficult to precisely define a concept of intelligence that matches our intuition that humans are smarter than chimps, who in turn are smarter than snails. But such difficulty just says something about how facile you are with defining concepts. It doesn't have any bearing on how things play out in the real world.

On the second point, who cares? If the first AGI draws gigawatts, it will still be an AGI.