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Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday November 05, 2018 @10:53AM (#18383251)
"We have analyzed the hardware full-disk encryption of several SSDs by reverse engineering their firmware. In theory, the security guarantees offered by hardware encryption are similar to or better than software implementations. In reality, we found that many hardware implementations have critical security weaknesses, for many models allowing for complete recovery of the data without knowledge of any secret. BitLocker, the encryption software built into Microsoft Windows will rely exclusively on hardware full-disk encryption if the SSD advertises supported for it. Thus, for these drives, data protected by BitLocker is also compromised.This challenges the view that hardware encryption is prefer-able over software encryption. We conclude that one should not rely solely on hardware encryption offered by SSDs."

we know how bad general code quality is in commercial vendor firmware, it's not surprising to see this

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by exceptione on Monday November 05, 2018 @11:02AM (#18383344)
I still think it's shocking, and I imagine a lot of companies and professionals rely on hardware encryption based on the presumption that it would be safer than software based encryption. I myself trusted the Opal-certification too.

There was really no option for the vendors to stunt this feature.

For me, this paper is rather alarming and should be on the front page.

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by xoa on Monday November 05, 2018 @02:15PM (#18385041)
It's genuinely interesting to hear this is the case. I mean, I don't disagree with you that it's important to have out in the open regardless. But I honestly just assumed from the start that Opal would just generally be a badly implemented feature checkbox not something dependable. For this case of crypto code it didn't seem trustworthy if it wasn't open, standard and trivially auditable. Unlike Apple for example these products don't have the kind of marketshare, clear public profile and constant open as well as covert attacks that would be necessary to grant a higher degree of confidence despite being closed, the barrier needs to be lower given the lower profile. So I've never used the hardware crypto in any SSD, it's always been through software on top, although in fairness that has become easier to do as AES-NI has become more universal in CPUs. That has given a lot of the assurance and speed of a dedicated hardware crypto chip while still using higher level software.

I guess in retrospect it's quite reasonable most people would trust it, or for that matter not think about it at all but rather trust Microsoft or whomever to be getting that right for them and that checking the FDE Box in the GUI would mean what it said. A good example of having personal blinders on for me, I'm too used to just ignoring Opal entirely since the day it was introduced.

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by paavoova on Monday November 05, 2018 @03:08PM (#18385474)
> the presumption that it would be safer than software based encryption

Is this really a common presumption? Why are companies making security decisions based on mere presumption? Wikipedia has a citation from 2013 [1] that discusses a number of vulnerabilities exploiting constant-power hot swapping, so if you'd done any research at all during the last decade you wouldn't be so shocked.

It seems SEDs are merely a convenience as far as transparency and overhead goes, and as a last resort when proper software FDE isn't available. All this talk about Bitlocker and such over LUKS suggests they're targeted at consumers, which would explain the shoddy engineering and proprietary specs.

[1] https://www.cs1.tf.fau.de/research/system-security-and-softw...

We show, however, that depending on the configuration of a system, hardware-based FDE is generally as insecure as software-based FDE [like TrueCrypt and BitLocker]

Note that, despite Linux being mentioned in the paper and utilized for tests, dm-crypt/Luks is not, only software solutions like Bitlocker. Likewise in the OP paper. Which makes me think this is a consumer-class vulnerability, due to the focus the researchers take. Surely enterprises are using something other than SED?

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday November 05, 2018 @11:21AM (#18383522)
I fully agree with you

EDIT: I found this link in the references section to a Travis Goodspeed talk (he writes a lot for PoC||GTFO) - it is phenomenal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zpb34Qf0NY

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by tjoff on Monday November 05, 2018 @02:36PM (#18385202)
What surprised me was that bitlocker could make use of it. I always assumed that software encryption would be much safer but I had no idea that the in-device hardware encryption could be leveraged by software.
Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by wlll on Monday November 05, 2018 @04:06PM (#18385978)
> we know how bad general code quality is in commercial vendor firmware, it's not surprising to see this

Quite. My experience of firmware is that it's usually total junk, from Internet connected web cams, to HTTP routers, to backplanes for NAS devices.

I was putting together a FreeNAS box for home a couple of months ago and this was the first time I'd seen drives with a self-encrypting ability. I ignored it and went for software encryption.

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Monday November 05, 2018 @02:36PM (#18385206)
> This challenges the view that hardware encryption is prefer-able over software encryption.

WAT? Who ever thought that? For exactly the reason you state, I certainly would not have recommended anyone to ever trust "hardware encryption". And it's not just that firmware tends to be terrible: We had plenty of "secure storage" thingies that weren't.

Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by igor_sk on Monday November 05, 2018 @04:26PM (#18386127)
properly implemented, hw encryption is better because it does not expose key material in the RAM even for a brief moment.
Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Monday November 05, 2018 @05:28PM (#18386567)
Well, yeah, sure, but who would possibly expect something like this to be implemented properly?
Re:Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption o... by acct1771 on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @01:00AM (#18388752)
95%+ of consumers.