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Re:Looming Lisp Boom? by pchristensen on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @12:50PM (#183501)
Sigh. I followed this discussion on c.l.l and it was too painful to contribute to. I was hoping it wouldn't follow me here, but since it's here, I guess I'll put in my $0.02. I trust HN readers more than c.l.l.

No one denies the power and goodness of Lisp. Also, everybody knows its issues

1) misconceptions based on its history (it's a slow, AI language)

2) portability issues among implementations (pathnames, sockets, GUI, etc

3) lack of standard implementation

#1 is a marketing problem - tractable with effort (just look what pg's essays alone have done). #2 is a coding resource problem - many hands make light work.

For #3, once there is a platform implementation with all the right features (threads, unicode), this problem goes away. If CLisp added threads or if SBCL worked on Windows, the game would be over - other implementations would continue but there would be an unambiguous choice for n00bs. De facto portability standards would form around that implementation and the burden would be on other implementations would make it compatible with the de facto winner.

I'm not invested in any of the implementations but it looks to me like SBCL is the closest to being the full featured, cross platform, open source implementation that is currently lacking. So as a pragmatist wanting Lisp to become bigger, I have three choices:

1) through my writing, encourage people to choose SBCL

2) contribute coding help to the SBCL windows port

3) whine

Most people choose #3. I'm not confident in my coding chops to do #2, so I'm focusing on #1. I have the time and ability to write well and I hope to add momentum to the front runner and make choices easier for new users.

Of course, the foolproof way is for someone to make something indispensable using Lisp so people can't help but adopt it (like Unix/Linux did for C).

-see also Bill Clementson's take on this from a couple years ago http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060403.html

Re:Looming Lisp Boom? by bridgetroll on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @06:18PM (#183928)
On the topic of SBCL: A few days ago I downloaded SBCL 1.0.13 on my WinXP laptop and have been playing around with it to get back into Lisp. So far its worked to go through some exercises. I'm using Paul's "ANSI Common Lisp" book which I needed for one of my CS programming classes years ago. Last serious Lisp programming I did was at Interleaf, when they were Interleaf, so I've got a lot of cobwebs to brush off. I've got some specific tools I want to implement, so I'll probably run into issues with the incomplete port and if I can carve out the time, have no problem helping out.
Re:Looming Lisp Boom? by Zak on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:21AM (#184613)
SBCL seems to work pretty well on Windows, but it doesn't have threads on Windows. As far as I know, no Common Lisp has native threads on Windows. I think Allegro and Lispworks have their own threading systems, but can't make use of more than one CPU/core.
Re:Looming Lisp Boom? by Xichekolas on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:28PM (#183661)
I agree wholeheartedly about your #3 (lack of standard implementation). For me, the most insightful line in the OP was:

> "I believe that the lisp boom won't come before there is a canonic open source implementation and a canonic repository for libraries."

I wouldn't argue there should be One Right Way, but it'd be nice if there was a Fairly Standard Way. Even Ruby, which has an official implementation, has several other implementations that exist in parallel, so it's not like picking CLisp or SBCL to be the flagship would doom the others. Power users are still going to appreciate choice, but it'd be nice to have a default that does everything for us noobs.