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Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by rayiner on Monday October 29, 2018 @01:58PM (#18329572)
The article is painting a pretty misleading characterization of the wetlands issue. Foxconn isn't being permitted to "discharge" heavy metals into wetlands. Foxconn is being permitted to fill certain isolated wetlands (i.e. wetlands that are not connected to rivers or lakes that would put them under federal jurisdiction) with the requirement that they create 2 acres of additional wetlands elsewhere for every acre they fill in: https://journaltimes.com/business/local/dnr-foxconn-to-creat.... That's more than the usual state law requirement of 1.2 acres created per acre of wetland filled in.

There's no indication, moreover, that Foxconn has received waivers from ordinary state and federal rules that regulate dumping heavy metals into the soil. The article misleadingly tries to suggest that by juxtaposing the fact that the LCD panels "require benzene, chromium, etc." with the fact that Foxconn has been authorized to fill in certain wetlands.

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by jetrink on Monday October 29, 2018 @03:07PM (#18330287)
Thank you for the clarification.

> requirement that they create 2 acres of additional wetlands elsewhere for every acre they fill in

I did this type of work during high school. The new wetlands are inspected regularly and must meet quality standards to count. After a period of time (10 years in my state), the wetlands are certified and no longer need to be inspected nor maintained. I have visited old projects that the state signed off on. After maintenance stopped, nearly all of the "high quality" wetlands that I worked on rapidly deteriorated into cattail, or worse, reed canary grass monocultures. When I was planting, I believed I was creating valuable habitats, but I was actually just working to check a box on a form.

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by mrfredward on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:27PM (#18329880)
Yep. It seems Foxconn is being allowed to bypass certain environmental regulations covering construction around wetlands and waterways. To my understanding, the waivers apply to the construction of the plant, not the operation of it.

More info: https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Does_Wisconsin%27s_Foxcon...

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by strange_quark on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:11PM (#18329704)
Regardless of whether or not they're going to discharge heavy metals, they're planning on drawing up to 7 million gallons of water per day from Lake Michigan outside of its basin on what amounts to a technicality in the Great Lakes Compact. Also the factory itself is going to be so large and built on a flood plain that it could cause flooding just over the border in Illinois because rainwater won't have anywhere to go.
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by danso on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:23PM (#18329838)
FWIW, the allowance of 7 million gallons/day from Lake Michigan is apparently a "0.07 percent increase in the total surface water withdrawals from Lake Michigan", according to the state's Dept. of Natural Resources:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/25/dnr-...

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by strange_quark on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:29PM (#18329904)
Sure, but it violates the compact. The compact only allows use of the water inside the basin. What's going on here is the factory is going to use water from Racine (which is on the lake) and therefore allowed to draw the water even though the factory itself is outside the basin.
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by tptacek on Monday October 29, 2018 @06:27PM (#18332164)
Lake Michigan is vast on a scale that is hard to get your head around. 7 million gallons a day is not outside the scope of what other commercial entities draw from the lake; for instance, the NIPSCO plant near the IN/MI border draws 12 million gallons a day. If you're going to claim that drawing an amount of water from the lake is a problem, you're going to have to support the argument with evidence; people seem pretty innumerate about the water supply here (see also: the Nestle debate in Michigan).
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by kasey_junk on Monday October 29, 2018 @07:35PM (#18332655)
Or cite the compact? Even though IL has gutted big sections of it in court, id imagine a blatant water pull deserves an assumption of being covered?
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by tptacek on Monday October 29, 2018 @08:33PM (#18332994)
I went and read the complaint letters from the WI (and MN) environmental groups, and the complaints broke down into two areas:

1. The diversion violates the interstate compact, which says that significant diversions are supposed to have some public or residential benefit. Foxconn's doesn't. It's not inherently problematic for the environment, but it sets a precedent they don't like.

2. Foxconn might pollute Lake Michigan.

That second concern is of course valid, but has nothing to do with the amount of water Foxconn consumes. I found one complaint that claimed consumptive use of water (that is, unlike NIPSCO, water that is diverted from the lake and not fed immediately back) could cause long-term problems because Michigan only replenishes 1% of its water annually. But Foxconn's draw is something like 0.0000002%.

If the lake was ringed with Foxconns from Gary to Mackinaw City, I'd see the problem. And: totally legit to be vigilant about precedent! But I don't see the intrinsic practical impact from Foxconn today (in terms of water usage).

Worth noting: Foxconn came back and cut their water demand in half with a recycling plant. Not that I want to sound like I'm defending Foxconn, because I think this is a really bad deal for Wisconsin.

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by kasey_junk on Monday October 29, 2018 @08:46PM (#18333067)
Put me firmly in camp 1. It’s a significant diversion & it seems sketchy as hell. If we had 100 of them how would we feel? I think the answer is awful.

That’s enough to justify the scale part of the appeal.

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by tptacek on Monday October 29, 2018 @08:53PM (#18333112)
If we had a hundred of them I'm still not clear that there would be a significant environmental impact purely from the draw.

(From the factory footprints on the lakeside, sure!)

We're agreed about the Foxconn project in general. I'm just crusading against Michigan water supply alarmism.

Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by rhizome on Monday October 29, 2018 @03:54PM (#18330749)
So...why not just build the dump pit instead of using an existing natural resource and "building some wetlands" afterwards?
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by jeffdavis on Monday October 29, 2018 @03:58PM (#18330783)
I think "fill" means "fill in with other soil so you can treat it like normal land" not "fill with toxic waste".
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by rhizome on Monday October 29, 2018 @06:45PM (#18332328)
Thanks, that makes sense.
Re:Wisconsin’s $4.1B Foxconn factory boondoggle by mohammedbin on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @04:43AM (#18334802)
It's the verge