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Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by paulgrant999 on Monday October 29, 2018 @12:19AM (#18325025)
I often make this point (if you don't have a grad-level understanding..). And people get pissy. Same with statistics ("if you don't have a PHD in stats; you don't understand stats").

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I had someone contact me for a "consulting" position, to replace their rule-based insurance claim denial system, with "ML". Contract-work, nobody in-house to review its performance, no insight to the problems of the domain and they wanted to throw ML at it to "solve their problem".

When I refused, and pointed out that it would be highly irresponsible, to "contract-out" this type of work, particularly given its life-or-death implications; the CEO got angry. Told me; its "post-claims processing" and it isn't life or death. To which I told him bullshit; your denial of claims is going to directly influence how doctors practice their treatment. There is a direct feedback cycle. The fact that you don't see it, makes it even more dangerous.

They simply, didn't understand, how HIGHLY inappropriate it was to just throw random ML at a problem, particularly as a one-off consulting project (and no in-house expertise).

^ thats real-world.

Personally I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near ML, UNLESS you have that PHD in computer science. I don't even think you should be allowed to HIRE people for ML until you fully understand the hazards with letting a computer control critical decisions.

So yeah, with respect to your distinction of "ML research" and "applied ML".

"NO."

Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by Xcelerate on Monday October 29, 2018 @01:57AM (#18325352)
> Personally I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near ML, UNLESS you have that PHD in computer science

A lot of ML research is done by PhDs in other fields. I did research that focused on developing compact group invariant features (for neural networks) for predicting local atomic energies in materials science, and a few mathematicians I follow did work on developing convolutional neural networks that utilize Clebsch–Gordan coefficients to generalize the translational invariance to other symmetries.

On the contrary, a lot of CS machine learning research is heavily application focused (generate such-and-such new thing using a GAN). If anything, mathematicians are the ones who understand machine learning at the very deepest level of theory. This isn't to say there aren't many theory-focused CS presentations/publications; I'm just refuting your point that highly theoretical machine learning research is purely the domain of CS PhDs.

Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by jacobolus on Monday October 29, 2018 @04:00AM (#18325730)
This seems like it misses the point. Obviously there are professional numerical analysts, statisticians, mathematical physicists, etc. who have sufficient background and interest to keep up with cutting edge research and do solid work in machine learning. The argument is not that everyone needs a CS degree per se, but rather that you shouldn’t have your excel guy who just went through a machine learning MOOC but has no further training or deeper understanding try to apply machine learning to life-or-death problems.
Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by mindcrime on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:01AM (#18328032)
shouldn’t have your excel guy who just went through a machine learning MOOC but has no further training or deeper understanding try to apply machine learning to life-or-death problems.

Sure, but most problems aren't life-or-death. They're mundane problems related to improving a business process for a widget manufacturer, etc.

Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by FranzFerdiNaN on Monday October 29, 2018 @03:46AM (#18325659)
> Personally I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near ML, UNLESS you have that PHD in computer science.

I rather have people have a PhD in logic or ethics, so they hopefully wont make for example racist programs without even thinking about it. Unfortunately, so far i dont have a lot of faith in computer science as a field when it comes to ethics, as it's all about the technical challenge. That something can be build does not mean it should be build.

Re:No Phd, No Problem: New Schemes Teach the Masses to Build AI by mindcrime on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:49AM (#18328454)
So yeah, with respect to your distinction of "ML research" and "applied ML". "NO."

Interesting. I don't see anything in the story above that supports that position. There's nothing about the scenario you described that would be affected by having, or not having, a Phd in CS. If anything, as somebody else pointed out, this is more of question of philosophy or ethics.

It's also a pretty niche example, which is not representative of the kinds of things that ML can be used for. If you want somebody who work on pricing optimization or a recommender system for your e-commerce site, you really don't need somebody who's doing cutting edge ML research.