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Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by godzillabrennus on Sunday October 28, 2018 @05:00AM (#18319765)
Scooters = making money

Homeless drug addicts = Losing money

Hence why San Francisco did something about the scooters.

So sad that it’s now becoming known globally as poop city.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Sunday October 28, 2018 @09:21AM (#18320464)
Serious question from semi-frequent visitor to SF:

I come every couple of years for a conference in downtown SF (Moscone Center) and always stay a whole week (so I can walk around town before/after the conference - usually going north and west towards the shore/golden gate bridge).

I have not throughout the years noticed the supposed infestation of human faeces. I see a lot of homeless people, but not more than, say, Berlin. And I would say the parts of the city I walk through (and especially the parks!) are actually cleaner than Berlin (and Berlin is not that dirty).

Am I just not staying/walking through the really bad parts? Or missing something else? Or does it just take longer exposure to notice?

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by johnomarkid on Sunday October 28, 2018 @10:15AM (#18320647)
It's a matter of perspective. Coming from Boston or Copenhagen, SF feels like an extremely dirty and grimy city. So does Berlin.

Parks in Berlin are littered with beer bottles and cigarette butts because smoking and drinking in public are acceptable there. In many US cities you are not allowed to smoke in a public park where children are playing. Some cities banned smoking in all public parks. Drinking outdoors is banned so you don't see many beer bottles.

The problem in SF is different. You can stare into a park in Berlin and see litter. In SF, a park may seem clean but if you stumble upon one hypodermic needle or human faeces, you may not feel like it's so clean anymore.

My neighborhood in Berlin (Mitte) has homeless people hanging around parks and subways stations, but they don't seem to suffer from mental illness at the same rate as the homeless in SF. As far as number of homeless, Mitte vs the Moscone area are comparable.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Sunday October 28, 2018 @06:35PM (#18323648)
I live in a very suburban part of Tempelhof (on the border to Mariendorf, near the Teltow canal & the U6 line) & even here you occasionally find spent needles along the riverside.

    Coming from Boston or Copenhagen, SF feels like 
    an extremely dirty and grimy city. So does Berlin.
I can see that...But man - visit New Delhi, Cairo, or hell even Tel Aviv or LA. Berlin is not that dirty - a relative judgment, sure - but I find comparing to Copenhagen (I haven't been to Boston since I was 14 so I don't really remember much) ingenuine.

It reminds of when I lived in Vienna & had a Swiss coworker telling me how bad the transit is in Austria (if you're unfamiliar - transit is amazing in Austria, to the point where you can live in a small alpine village and not need a car. Switzerland just happens to be one of the handful of countries with even better transit).

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by johnomarkid on Sunday October 28, 2018 @06:46PM (#18323685)
That's my point. It's a matter of perspective whether or not you find SF dirty. If you come from a cleaner place, you're going to feel like it's dirty. Berlin isn't much cleaner, and there is a homeless problem too (though likely different in cause), so you're not likely to go to SF and feel like the criticism others are passing is as bad as it sounds.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Monday October 29, 2018 @04:46AM (#18325901)
Yeah but how many people are coming from Copenhagen vs e.g. LA or Miami[1]? Let alone any large Latin American or Asian city. But maybe that's just the HN demographics.

[1] I haven't visited Miami in a long time but last I went it was far seedier and grimier than SF, despite lots of rain.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by johnomarkid on Monday October 29, 2018 @11:55AM (#18328510)
A lot of people are coming from cleaner places, and those places aren't necessarily big cities. Rather, suburbs and rural areas.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by TACIXAT on Sunday October 28, 2018 @09:48AM (#18320566)
I think you might just not be tuned into it. I've gone into the city 3 times since moving to San Jose and I've seen it every time. My girlfriend just did an interview in SF and the building she was interviewing at had feces smeared on the window.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Sunday October 28, 2018 @09:52AM (#18320578)
Maybe! Also according to wiki apperantly rain is highly seasonal in San Francisco & I've never visited in the summer (usually feb/march).
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by et-al on Sunday October 28, 2018 @01:25PM (#18321708)
> Am I just not staying/walking through the really bad parts?

Next time walk down Howard until you hit 6th St. Talk a walk up 6th to Market Street. Then take your pick of Eddy or Turk for fecalspotting.

Also, the shit residents experience is usually there in the morning and someone washes it away by noon, so if you're attending conferences during the day, you probably won't see it by the time you get out.

Personally, I would say San Francisco's cleanliness is similar to Paris', but with more overt drug use.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Sunday October 28, 2018 @09:25AM (#18320483)
BTW this is the park that I was thinking about: https://goo.gl/maps/XDYaADoK7662

And I would venture a guess that NO parks within anywhere remotely central locations in Berlin are as clean as this one - not just no used needles/broken bottles but not even "pedestrian" litter like thrown packaging or paper. I don't think you would even commonly find cigarette butts on the grass.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by et-al on Monday October 29, 2018 @02:28AM (#18325435)
Yerba Buena Gardens is more of a corporate garden. Check out all the rules they have: https://ybgfestival.org/visitor-info/#rules

Basically don't do anything but sit, eat your lunch, and look at your phone. The amount of staff people there during the daytime is unlike any other park in SF.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by ido on Monday October 29, 2018 @04:43AM (#18325888)
Ok fair enough! I didn't know that, it was just the nearest park to Moscone so I assumed this is what public parks look like in downtown SF.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by drb91 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @07:14AM (#18320142)
It’s easy to describe SF as far worse than a “poop city”, which is frankly overblown anyway. Maybe “the city where the rich are content to listen to people die on their doorstep”.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by graeme on Sunday October 28, 2018 @07:31AM (#18320192)
The SV people I follow on twitter don't seem too content. A bit part of the issue is lack of shelters, which aren't built to to limited funding or zoning restrictions, correct?

SF doesn't actually have more homeless per capita, they just have more unsheltered people. And most come from the bay area.

I don't know the exact cause of the problem, but if it was a problem money could solve on its own it would have been done already. The homelessness issue in SF is pereniall bad press for tech companies.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by wilde on Sunday October 28, 2018 @09:43AM (#18320545)
I’m not sure the companies see it that way. There’s money but it’s going to protect their tax breaks. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/10/san-francisco-prop-c-...
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by coldtea on Sunday October 28, 2018 @10:16AM (#18320656)
>The SV people I follow on twitter don't seem too content.

Actions show that, not lip service.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by WillPostForFood on Sunday October 28, 2018 @10:41AM (#18320778)
And talk about literally self selected.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by thatswrong0 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @07:58AM (#18320255)
It’s really not overblown. I live downtown.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by drb91 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @10:44AM (#18320793)
Me too! But there are dogs and homeless people all over; poop management issues are really not unique to SF. I am in Germany at the moment and my poop-dodging skills are still in high use.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by thatswrong0 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:06AM (#18320911)
Compared to other major American cities like Chicago or NYC though, it’s really really bad. It’s not even close. The number of times I’ve seen people actively shitting in front of me is way too damn high.
Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by drb91 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @07:16PM (#18323806)
Homeless? Sure, why not.

Shitting in front of me? The world is ending.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by loceng on Sunday October 28, 2018 @10:12AM (#18320635)
"Homeless drug addicts = Losing money"

Imagine drug dealers actually cared about using some of their profits to take care of people, and hoping that they maintain the use of their drugs - helping the user become more productive, have more money, therefore be able to buy more drugs.. I suppose that's what legalizing drug use is all about, bringing it into the public eye, and allowing government and other health services more access to people to help them.

Re:Scooters are taking cars off the road, a survey says by blfr on Sunday October 28, 2018 @03:18PM (#18322416)
Turning drug addicts into serfs like in Interstate 60[1]. Perhaps it would be an improvement but doesn't seem like a desirable end goal.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165832/