I don't understand the laws; my link was to show that S.F. taxis operate as a cartel, and use city laws to enforce their cartel (through medallions and their quota). I don't know if this is precisely what the UberCab C&D is about (it's not been published), but it does show that the S.F. transport market is explicitly and intentionally anti-competitive.

That said, the other TechCrunch post seems to say the taxi licensing may be relevant -- the functions UberCab is doing can only be legally done by licensed taxis:

>* Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license.

>...

>* Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license).

http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/24/ubercab/

If limos need to wait an hour to make a pickup, and taxis do not, then UberCab (I think) is doing what only taxis can do and thus needs that license, not the limo one. The fundamental problem is not that UberCab is licensed as a limo rather than a taxi, but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi -- that (as I understand) there is no reasonable way for them to legally do what they are doing.

I am not a lawyer.

Oh no I understood the point of the link. Taxi operations in SF really is mob controlled. The thing is, UberCab was never meant to be a replacement to taxi cabs, it's a way to provide people with expedited black car services.

Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license.

This is incorrect. They operate much like a sedan limousine company.

Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license).

This is also incorrect, the pertinent statues in taxi and limo commission law is this: ...assuring that affiliated vehicles and the drivers of such vehicles provide transportation only through pre- arrangement made with the base station and do not accept passengers by street hail or other than by dispatch by the base station

Using the phone app is by definition a pre-arrangement. The black cars are not picking random people off the streets, they're picking a preset customer in prearranged fashion.

but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi

Why should they? They are not a taxi company. Not only that, but they don't actually own the cars either, it's an affiliate program basically. They are a layer for independent private chauffeur services and limousine services companies to have ability to make their prearrangements on the phone.

They could make a deal with taxi companies, to pass the < 1hr fares to them instead.

Problem solved.

Who needs laws when you've got bribes, right?

> UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal driver service with valid license and insurance policies required for private transport services to pickup a customer at a select location.

The limo/chauffeur/driver has a valid license to operate a limo service, not a cab service. They are operating as a cab service when dispatched by UberCab, and so if they do not have a cab license, it would seem that they are operating outside the law.

Why would they be operating a cab service? There are two things that separate cab service and black car service. 1) black car service drivers are not allowed to pick up passengers by street hail or any other method that is not dispatch by base station, and is booked on a private hire basis. 2) black car service is basically a private transportation in which a limo license has been granted, is suited by it's luxurious demeanor as a vehicle appropriate for ceremonies and uses of luxury or prestige.

The cars that UberCab dispatches are in appearance and in license compliant with black car services and are hired on-demand on a prearrangement basis through a phone application. In addition, a customer must register for the service and provide a credit card to use the service.

This are not random people calling a cab station, this are specific customers arranging for private transportation they could do by phone, but do so using an application instead.

> Why would they be operating a cab service?

Because, per San Francisco city bylaws, cab services, and only cab services, can pick up people immediately. Limo Services must arrange pick-ups at least one hour in advance.

Is there a citation for the law requiring arrangements at least an hour in advance? The original article didn't claim such a law exists in San Francisco, just that it was common in many states. So I wonder where you got the specific information about SF laws.

The CPUC says that limousine service must be pre-arranged, unlike taxi service. I didn't see a definition of "pre-arranged", but UberCab doesn't sound pre-arranged to me. You use it when you want transportation now, not when you know that you have an upcoming need for transportation at some definite future time that you wish to ensure is covered.

Yes, you have to sign up for the service first and get the phone app, but I don't see that this makes a difference. What's pre-arranged there is the ability to use the service. When I turn on my TV, go to the "On Demand" section, pick a movie, and watch it, I doubt anyone would say I'm watching a pre-arranged movie, even though I had to previously subscribe to the cable service in order to do so. Seems to me that's essentially the same as what UberCab is doing.

I've used limo services a lot (they're really just a bit more expensive than using a cab really), and I tend to forget to arrange it before I jump on the plane. It has never been a problem to call a few limo services to ask if they have available limos to my destination and I've always gotten them promptly. In comparison, if you do pay per view for example, and the event/show is due in 5 minutes, is it not prearranged?

Let's use your example. On demand would be you stopping a taxi by waving like a madman on the street. That's immediate. UberCab is like me calling a Limo service (which is my example above) asking for a limo to pick me up at the airport and the limo arriving in 10 minutes. Hell I once called from the airport and a flight a different customer was in was delayed by 3 hours, so they gave me his limo sedan. I literally had on demand service, since I didn't have to wait for the limo to get there. I've done this in multiple states and it has never been a problem.

Exactly. In particular, limos need to arrange for pick-up at least 1 hour beforehand in SF to avoid being classified as taxis (if I remember correctly from the original article).

California law stated that limousines must be dispatched on a private hire prearrangement basis, regardless of if the reservation is an hour before or not. The vast majority of the limousines services in the united states offer last minute dispatch services if available. This is a in all effects and excuse to stop UberCar, not a requirement.

Let's say I arrived at the airport and forgot to book my limo. You're telling me that I can't call a limo service and ask for one? And that if I do I have to wait an hour? That's not how it works nor how its stated by the law.

OK, first, don't get all mad at me. I don't support such a law; I was just quoting my recollection of it from a previous article.

Second, I think I was remembering this quote

> Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away

which may not apply to SF. Do you have a source that there is in fact no such time-limit in SF?

Oh no sorry if it came of as if I attacking you, I wasn't, I was just making a point! :) That quote is false as almost all Limo services allow you to use their services on a last minute basis if they have available limos. To be honest, I've never been to SF, but I've been to SD and LA and have used last minute limo services (trust me its just a bit more expensive than a cab and it makes a world of difference) there. I've also done so in Florida, Atlanta, Houston, and Wichita. Also this regulation doesn't appear anywhere online, but the part that specifies what makes a limo service in contrast to a taxi service is.

They will, but are they skirting the law in doing so?

I've seen (and taken advantage of) black limos cruising the streets of San Francisco at busy times (New Year's Eve, closing time), picking up passengers taxi-style. It's presumably illegal, but the police generally have better things to do at these times than harass limo drivers.

Nope, because I've checked and the only restriction on limo services is that they can't stop for passengers (what you said is a great example of limo drivers breaking the law). Off course it wouldn't surprise me SF was the only state that has this 1 hour law, even though LA and San Diego don't.

I find it interesting because there is a record of SF not allowing limo services to top for customers, but I can't find any on the one hour restriction. Honestly I think that comment was taken out of context regarding the companies themselves having a one previous hour arrangement policy.

There are limo services advertised, and a courtesy phone that will reach them in the SFO airport right after the baggage pickup. I used one 3 weeks ago, and it took 5 minutes for my limo to arrive.

How is that different than calling for a cab to pick you up at a certain place and time?

Well, in SF, you can call a cab and wait for hours with it never arriving.

It seems the key cab/limo distinction is usually reserved/roaming. While both can be dispatched/reserved, only cabs can roam and be hailed streetside.

UberCab is in compliance with that distinction -- they are reserved, just more instantly than ever before, because of the march of technology.

The difference is that instead of a yellow car, you get a black car. What is a limo service but a luxury version of a taxi service? The distinguishing factor is that one can pickup passengers on the street and by hail and the other is only made by prearrangement and is considered a PRIVATE luxury service.