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Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by QUFB on Monday October 15, 2018 @07:54AM (#18218962)
Google's own GCE still doesn't have IPv6 support on the instance level:

https://googlecloudplatform.uservoice.com/forums/302595-comp...

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by pilif on Monday October 15, 2018 @08:11AM (#18219039)
I'm a huge fan of IPv6 as it's a huge contributor to ensure the continued openness of the internet. Also, I'm in the privileged position of having a native dual-stack provided by my ISP, so I have native IPv4 and IPv6 both at home and in the office.

And yet, even in this position, I think having IPv6 native inside of a production network isn't absolutely necessary (our production env runs in the RFC1918 space too even though v6 would be available at both ends):

Access to the private production network should all happen over an encrypted and authenticated VPN and all access form the production network to the public network (if needed at all) should go through a filtering proxy server.

Which means that the addressing used in your internal network becomes completely irrelevant and can easily be IPv4.

This only becomes an issue once you need more hosts than the /8 offered by the 10/8 RFC1918 network, but the days when you need (and can afford) more than 16.7M nodes on a cloud computing provider are probably still a ways off.

If you want instance level IPv6 in order to access an instance directly or in order to access a resource directly, you're probably doing something wrong.

Then again, as services become v6 only (which will still be a few years off) and you need to access them from your production network, then your frontend proxy will of course need access to the v6 network. At that point, yes, instance level v6 becomes necessary too.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by agwa on Monday October 15, 2018 @08:48AM (#18219224)
Using IPv4 internally becomes an issue as soon as you need to interconnect with someone else's internal network which uses overlapping IPv4 address space. The most famous example is probably Facebook's acquisition of Instagram, which required an incredible amount of iptables hackery to work around overlapping IPv4 address space: https://instagram-engineering.com/migrating-from-aws-to-fb-8...

In contrast, even if you use "private" IPv6 addresses (ULA), the address space is large enough that everyone can have their own prefix. Or better, just use public IPv6 addresses and firewall them.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by endymi0n on Monday October 15, 2018 @09:25AM (#18219438)
Then again, IPv6 hasn't really been built with NAT in mind, precisely because "there are so many addresses out there you won't need it". So if you decide for an IPv6 deployment for your servers, you're essentially between a rock (you can't easily transfer an IPv6 address space from one cloud provider to the next) and a hard place (use ULA addresses internally and having to NAT to the outside anyway, but with less software and hardware support). As for me personally, I'm totally fine with IPv4 behind the load balancer: it gives me a much easier time with basically everything and I can still support both v4 and v6 for all clients connecting to my site as well.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Monday October 15, 2018 @10:50AM (#18220138)
IPv4 also hasn't been built with NAT in mind. And given the disaster it has been ... no, obviously, noone in their right mind would build a new protocol with NAT in mind.

For one, you don't need NAT to use ULA internally. You just use ULA for internal stuff and global addresses for everything else.

But really, if renumbering is a problem in the first place, you are doing something fundamentally very wrong. Renumbering should be a matter of adding a new prefix of the same length to your addressing plan and replicating in it the exact same subnet structure you had before, then deprecating the old prefix (so it's not used for new outbound connections), waiting a bit, and then removing the old prefix. If your problem is hard-coded addresses everywhere, that is also a problem with your system design. Almost all of your configuration should only contain host names, and your DNS should either use dynamic updates so that hosts register their current primary addresses with the DNS server, or some other mechanism that generates records from an addressing plan of sorts and a prefix. There should be very few places where you need to change addresses in order to switch prefixes.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by agwa on Monday October 15, 2018 @09:51AM (#18219611)
Yes, renumbering is a PITA.

NAT66 does exist and over time more software and hardware will support it. But you don't need NAT if you are using ULA; instead you would configure each system with both its ULA address and the global address from your provider (SLAAC can advertise multiple prefixes). Traffic to other internal systems would use the ULA addresses, while traffic to the Internet would use the global address.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by clhodapp on Monday October 15, 2018 @10:16AM (#18219829)
Why would it be important to be able to switch cloud providers and keep the same addresses on your internal network? Changing providers while keeping addresses seems abstractly like a nice capability to have but it also seems that it might or might not end up being just as much logistical trouble as re-addressing everything when it came down to the implementation...
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by Oowee1Ee on Monday October 15, 2018 @10:56AM (#18220197)
Change prefix, keep the suffix.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by tambre on Monday October 15, 2018 @12:29PM (#18221118)
While GCP has IPv6 support for their global load balancers, it's very limited and not sufficient for many uses.

For example, I've been working on contributing IPv6 support to GitLab.com [0], which is hosted on GCP. Turns out it's impossible for the main site right now, because none of the global load balancer types allow port 22, which is used for Git traffic. I've no idea why there are even such restrictions, but there's of course a "feature" request for allowing port 22 [1]. I was able to repurpose the work for other parts of GitLab.com, but I've yet to get even those to work, due to the load balancers gobbling up HTTPS/SSL requests [2].

[0] https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/gitlab-com-infrastructure/merg...

[1] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/77944636

[2] https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/gitlab-com-infrastructure/merg...

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by dsl on Monday October 15, 2018 @05:52PM (#18224158)
GLB can't even support TCP and UDP listeners on the same IP, which means you can't put a DNS server behind it.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by zamadatix on Monday October 15, 2018 @09:05AM (#18219311)
Having two IP addresses is all that is necessary for most private networks, it's just a dumb and over complicated way of traversing nodes. Same with 2^24 IPs.

"Access to the private production network should all happen over an encrypted and authenticated VPN"

IPsec, likely the same thing that'd be encrypting your VPN, can just be used directly between hosts without complication if you have all public addresses.

"and all access form the production network to the public network (if needed at all) should go through a filtering proxy server."

Why does it have to be a proxy? Why not just a firewall sitting in the route path? Again, the way you're use to working around a limited address space is leading to complicated solutions to problems easily solved by having more addresses.

In computing very little is "necessary" but it doesn't mean it makes much sense for it to be that way the same as programming your cloud application with NAND logic doesn't make sense.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by X-Istence on Monday October 15, 2018 @03:24PM (#18222839)
The amount of work that was done at the last two ISP's I worked due to being out of RFC1918 space and thus needing to do overlay networks, and all kinds of fun translating and gateways and overall making a HUGE mess of everything...

Because while there is a 10/8, once you start subnetting that and advertising it from multiple sites and start running labs that look and act like production that /8 goes quick.

Give me IPv6 any day.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by Oowee1Ee on Monday October 15, 2018 @10:41AM (#18220055)
> And yet, even in this position, I think having IPv6 native inside of a production network isn't absolutely necessary

Not necessary, but it could be quite useful. The 64bit suffix of ULA addresses lets you group your containers into separate blocks with static prefixes. E.g. you could always have the :0000 - :FFFF block be your reverse proxies, the next block the storage shards and so on.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by all_blue_chucks on Monday October 15, 2018 @03:58PM (#18223125)
NAT is the devil. RFC1918 is the devil. Want to filter inbound traffic? It's called a firewall.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by Corrado on Monday October 15, 2018 @03:54PM (#18223100)
> This only becomes an issue once you need more hosts than the /8 offered by the 10/8 RFC1918 network, but the days when you need (and can afford) more than 16.7M nodes on a cloud computing provider are probably still a ways off.

It's not that you require more than a /8 can provide, it's more a function of convenience. I have 10 customers, each one of those has 4 environments (Dev, QA, Stage, Prod) and each of these environments need to live in 3 regions, and each region has 3 AZs, and each AZ has 6 subnets. Splitting that up with a 10.0.0.0/8 gets complicated. I would much rather say 2006:abcd:0001:::: is customer A, ::0002::: is customer B, etc. IPv6 gives me plenty of room to maneuver and eliminates the need to worry about IP exhaustion.

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by api on Monday October 15, 2018 @11:56AM (#18220772)
It's not necessary for most applications, but it's extremely helpful for some. It can also be used to realize deployment scenarios where you cluster across clouds very easily provided you ensure connections are secure between nodes/containers/services.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by lisper on Monday October 15, 2018 @08:47AM (#18219223)
> the days when you need (and can afford) more than 16.7M nodes on a cloud computing provider are probably still a ways off

And the days when you need 16M nodes all of which need to talk to each other directly are probably even further off.

(In fact, I would go even further and say that if you find yourself ever facing that situation you've done something badly wrong in your architectural design.)

Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by ec109685 on Monday October 15, 2018 @09:47AM (#18219579)
Even if you need more IPs than the 10/8 network provides, there are other prefixes you can use, as long as your hosts do not need to ever directly connect to them, so you effectively have billions of private ips at your service.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by zamadatix on Monday October 15, 2018 @05:48PM (#18224120)
Pro-tip: never do this outside of ranges explicitly reserved for private use. Multiple times a year I have to deal with some hospital somewhere saying "well <xyz> didn't use to come from that range!" and then dealing with the fact 10,000 medical devices can't have their IPs changed. Recently a similar thing happened with 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1 when Cloudflare went live with them, nobody ever thought those IPs would be handed out.
Re:IPv6 breaks the 25% barrier by ggm on Monday October 15, 2018 @12:22PM (#18221045)
But it does at the redirector/Traefik level.

Worse, Kubernetes as a model doesn't use IPv6 internally when it should. No reason not to use e.g. ULAs.