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Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by sp332 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:02AM (#18193591)
I like this. I think more people should be taking businesses to small claims court when they get screwed over. Have you ever been part of a class action lawsuit and wondered why you only get like $3? Instead you can opt-out of the settlement and sue the company yourself, if you think you can make a convincing case that they owe you more money.
Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by howard941 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:18AM (#18194198)
I like it also. But the point of class actions isn't to bring home big bank for the class members. It's to motivate the class action counsel who acts as a private state attorney (or whatever the equiv is in your jurisdiction) to protect the class.

Class actions are necessary today more than ever because the executive in my (your) state is conflicted and too beholden to the class defendant to act on your behalf. But thanks to a dumbass (term of art) application of the Fed Arb Act by way of boilerplate "contracts" in consumer matters class actions go away.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by rayiner on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:14AM (#18193692)
> Have you ever been part of a class action lawsuit and wondered why you only get like $3?

It's because a settlement represents the total damages divided among all class members, reduced to account for litigation risk. Would you have bought a PS2 if you knew Sony was going to take out the Linux feature? Maybe a fraction of the people who downloaded the Linux feature to play with it wouldn't have bought a PS2 without it. So you take their $300 in damages, multiplied by the 1,000 people for whom the feature made the sale, divided by the 10,000 people who just played with the feature. Then you discount for litigation risk. Is your class overly broad? Is your economics expert going to get thrown out on Daubert? There's lots of ways for the company to win that don't require it to prove "we didn't do the bad thing." That's how you end up with a $3 settlement.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by a_c_s on Thursday October 11, 2018 @12:17PM (#18194764)
The problem is the whole system is designed from the perspective of the lawyers rather than the customers.

If a company overcharged me $10 for a product, then as part of the settlement I should get at least $10. The company should also have to pay punitive damages, some of which could be used to pay the lawyers.

Instead we get a system where the total damage amount is often less than the company's profits on their illegal activity. Then lawyers take their fee, and then the remainder is divvied up and everyone in the class to get $1.57.

It is an absurd system: companies get off way easier than they should and customers get screwed even when they win.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by rayiner on Thursday October 11, 2018 @01:12PM (#18195226)
> The problem is the whole system is designed from the perspective of the lawyers rather than the customers. If a company overcharged me $10 for a product, then as part of the settlement I should get at least $10. The company should also have to pay punitive damages, some of which could be used to pay the lawyers.

The lawyers would love this, because they work on contingency and would get paid more of their clients recover more.

> Instead we get a system where the total damage amount is often less than the company's profits on their illegal activity.

That's because the system is set up to protect the defendant. Absent exceptional circumstances, there are no punitive damages, so the most you can recover is, e.g. the amount of the overcharge. Then it is reduced from there to account for other factors. For example, damages are measured by the wrongful profits, not the total profits. If you sell a $1,000 laptop and make $100 profit, and you've engaged in price fixing, the $100 profit isn't on the table, only the difference between the $1,000 price and the hypothetical price in the absence of price fixing. The defendant's expert then says the price fixing only resulted in prices going up by $3, and the plaintiff's expert says it was more like $50, and the jury picks $5, because jury trials are usually held where the company has a presence and juries don't like to punish local companies. Meanwhile, there is a possibility that you get nothing because of various legal technicalities, which are in themselves justified but in the aggregate create a minefield to recovery.[1] So when the company offers to settle for $4, you jump on it.

[1] It's deeply rooted in the law that defendants should not pay for harms that were not caused by their conduct. So say you're a laptop manufacturer that engaged in price fixing. Plaintiffs present evidence showing that prices went up $50 after the price rigging meetings started. But it just so happens that around the same time a tsunami wiped out DRAM factories in Taiwan. Even if you have executive after executive testify "yeah, we totally were trying to raise prices by entering agreements with competitors," your damages expert can still carry the day by convincing the jury that your price fixing wasn't the culprit and that parts shortages caused by the tsunami were responsible for almost all of the increase in prices.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by dragonwriter on Thursday October 11, 2018 @12:24PM (#18194831)
> If a company overcharged me $10 for a product, then as part of the settlement I should get at least $10.

This seems to misunderstand the concept of settlement.

A settlement is always going to be less than you are entitled to as a matter of right assuming everything you claim is true, otherwise, there's no purpose in settling rather than disputing the claims.

> Instead we get a system where the total damage amount is often less than the company's profits on their illegal activity.

There rarely is illegal activity established on the way to a settlement; yes, you could often get far more if you went to trial and proved illegal activity, but that would always be a significant delay, always add significant expense that might not be covered in a fees award (because costs and attorneys’ fees aren't automatically awarded to winning parties, that’s a separate fight that may or may not be won), and might fail entirely leaving you with nothing at all.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by icelancer on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:21AM (#18202015)
> A settlement is always going to be less than you are entitled to as a matter of right assuming everything you claim is true, otherwise, there's no purpose in settling rather than disputing the claims.

The first part is true, the second part is not, because it assumes zeros in both legal cost and opportunity risk; there is a minor effect regarding PR and precedent as well for companies and organizations.

Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by thfuran on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:12AM (#18194139)
Don't forget to subtract off the ~25% plus expenses that goes to the legal fees.
Re:Robot lawyer DoNotPay now lets you ‘sue anyone’ via an app by rayiner on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:18AM (#18194191)
Sure, but that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the other factors. You probably wouldn’t be very happy with a $4 settlement instead of a $3 one. (And it’s not like going to small claims court is free, unless your time is worth nothing.)