Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by collyw on Sunday October 07, 2018 @09:25AM
(#18160420)
Agreed, the other thing that gets me is that estimates are often expected to be on the spot decisions. If you have done a task that is similar before then that's fair enough, but no one has ever told me to go off for a day or two and investigate the difficult / unknown parts to see hat the options are.
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Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by celestialjeu on Sunday October 07, 2018 @10:10AM
(#18160612)
Really? We have spike tickets all the time to go and explore a problem and see what edge cases we can find, explore possible solutions, and stuff like that. We usually scope spikes to a day or so. But we've had a couple where we were given almost a full week. The minimum I've spent was an afternoon and that was mostly because I actually found a lot of info a lot faster than expected.
Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by mlthoughts2018 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @10:21AM
(#18160657)
Spike tickets are one of the funniest ways I’ve seen this handled. All it can really tell you is whether, in some short initial investigation, there is a known blocker, usually on the technical implementation side.
But the problems that make estimation useless are problems that only surface after detailed digging that takes time and cross-team communication not realistically possible in time-boxed spike tickets, involving happening onto things that were not known and could not be known within a short spike timeframe.
Spike tickets are just an Agile bureaucracy thing to paper over the fact that estimation is intrinsically problematic to some fundamental aspects of one-size-fits-all methodologies like Agile.
Essentially for a spike ticket to be helpful in the common case, you need a spike ticket that just says, “actually go and complete the whole task you’re trying to estimate and then come back and tell us how long it really took.”
Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by bonniemuffin on Sunday October 07, 2018 @12:21PM
(#18161303)
We go off to investigate for scoping quite often. If you're not doing that, you're just guessing, which seems counterproductive.
Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by mlthoughts2018 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:31PM
(#18161666)
Yet on the spot guessing is what most product managers and executives require.
Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by bonniemuffin on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:00PM
(#18162093)
That hasn't been my experience at all (major bay area tech co). PMs and execs who I work with are generally totally okay with "I'll get back to you by [date] with scoping and ETA for that request." We even have a name for it: we call it an "ETA for an ETA". It's much better to give an ETA-for-an-ETA and then come back with a real ETA once you know the scope, rather than just guessing an ETA that turns out to be totally wrong. Sorry if that hasn't been your experience; being asked to pull ETAs out of your ass without doing due diligence sounds like it would be demoralizing.
Re:What's a senior engineer's job?
by mlthoughts2018 on Monday October 08, 2018 @12:55PM
(#18169067)
I’ve also worked for major Bay area tech cos, and your description hasn’t matched my experience in any of them.