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Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by CapacitorSet on Sunday October 07, 2018 @06:50AM (#18159948)
Crucially, gig workers do not own an important part of their means of production: the platform that processes rides/rentals/etc, payments and users, which allows the traditional bourgeois to extract surplus value (Mehrwert) in the usual way, and the workers fit the definition of proletarians.
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by Illniyar on Sunday October 07, 2018 @07:01AM (#18159987)
True, but they own some of it, and there is competition between platforms for them (I.E. lyft vs uber). In fact many people "work" for multiple platforms. It's similar to a farmer selling his ware in a marketplace, which he must pay rent for. Would you say that because he doesn't own the marketplace (or store) he doesn't own his means of production?

Now the question is whether they must own all of the means of production to be considered bourgeois? I would say no, especially in today's world, where most production is a complicated multi-tiered process.

But even if you do think so, they are still much better off, Marxist-wise, from virtually every service worker, who own no means of production.

In any case, that doesn't mean that there is no exploitation or that the gig economy should not be regulated, but it really doesn't have anything to do with Proletariat.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by NeedMoreTea on Sunday October 07, 2018 @07:07AM (#18160001)
What means of production do they own? Surely that's the platform app and backend, which offers a price?

A farmer on a market stall can price however he likes.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by Illniyar on Sunday October 07, 2018 @07:18AM (#18160023)
The car (Uber,Lift), the house (AirBnB), the tools for making what they sell (Etsy,fiverr).

Only Uber (and other ride-haling apps I suppose) forces a price, all other marketplaces the price is set by the seller - AirBnB, Etsy, fiverr. In Amazon Turk the seller and buyer roles are reversed and Turkers only accept work that pay enough for them.

I would say it's more a product of the industry they are in - transportation is usually regulated to have a fixed price almost everywhere - then the nature of marketplaces in the gig-economy as a whole.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by NeedMoreTea on Sunday October 07, 2018 @07:36AM (#18160072)
I don't see how it can be. The equivalent of the capitalist's lock out, is a ban from or temporary closure of a platform.

An individual driver withdrawing his car is a resignation, or declining to do a particular job, surely? Go back to pre employment legislation times and it was pretty common to require a worker to own the tools by buying them themselves and take them to work in the local factory. The factory and machinery was still the means of production.

Consider a nationalisation where a state buys the means of production. They would nationalise the company that owns the factory not the individual workers and their tools. If someone decided to nationalise AirBNB or Uber they'd take the company and platform, not a thousand cars or houses.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by billyggruff on Sunday October 07, 2018 @08:18AM (#18160210)
Uber does not force a price.

It is up to the driver to accept the fare.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by swiley on Sunday October 07, 2018 @10:41AM (#18160768)
I've been told that uber hides some of the information (either the price or the distance the driver has to go or both) which makes that not quite true.
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by jesuschristHD on Sunday October 07, 2018 @12:34PM (#18161373)
I currently drive for Uber and both of these are 100% true When a request pops up all I see is the estimated time it'll take me to get to the pickup point, I also have exactly 10 seconds to accept a request.
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by billyggruff on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:00AM (#18176014)
Is this also true for Lyft?
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by billyggruff on Sunday October 07, 2018 @11:05AM (#18160900)
If that is true than it is no better than the US healthcare system.
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by s73v3r_ on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:35PM (#18161970)
No. Take it or leave it is them dictating a price.
Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by leetcrew on Sunday October 07, 2018 @06:24PM (#18162937)
if i demand a $2mm salary, take it or leave it, i am not dictating a price; i am getting laughed out of the room and someone else is getting the job. uber is only dictating a price to the extent that lyft won't offer more.

firms like comcast, who may be the only ISP offering >25mbps in a particular area, are the ones who get to dictate a price.

Re:Gig-Economy Workers Are the Modern Proletariat by CapacitorSet on Sunday October 07, 2018 @07:35AM (#18160065)
>It's similar to a farmer selling his ware in a marketplace, which he must pay rent for. Would you say that because he doesn't own the marketplace (or store) he doesn't own his means of production?

This analogy doesn't hold in the Marxian framework. Gig companies adopt the "D-M-D" scheme, where they hire a worker to produce a service which the company will sell, earning part of the profits; the marketplace owner does not enter such a scheme, and its relationship with the farmer is not considered to extract surplus value.

>But even if you do think so, they are still much better off, Marxist-wise, from virtually every service worker, who own no means of production.

Indeed, people like the farmer - owning the means of production, and self-employed or with few employees - are a distinct class in the Marxian framework, namely the petite bourgeoisie.