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Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:07PM (#18141142)
This can go wrong so fast. If there are only two kinds of people, winners of lotteries and losers of lotteries, it doesn't mean I have a 50% chance of winning the lottery.

The simulation has to be 'good enough' to make a thinking person (win the lottery); my mind has to be only smart enough to think of multiple universes but not perceive the obvious simulation artifacts; I have to be written (as a simulation myself) to be capable of accepting multiple universes.

Since we even ask ourselves "Are we a limited simulation artifact, or a real thinking person?" the answer is right there in the question.

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by longerthoughts on Thursday October 04, 2018 @01:21PM (#18141793)
The lottery analogy is compelling as an argument against the parents' specific assignment of probability but I would challenge you on a couple of things:

> The simulation has to be 'good enough' to make a thinking person (win the lottery); my mind has to be only smart enough to think of multiple universes but not perceive the obvious simulation artifacts

Why is it necessarily true that the creator of a simulation would want to indefinitely prevent people in the simulation from recognizing that their universe is simulated?

> Since we even ask ourselves "Are we a limited simulation artifact, or a real thinking person?" the answer is right there in the question.

Let's go along with the notion that the simulation would want to avoid discovery of the simulation. How are you sure that you're really asking the question if you're so convinced of the answer? Is it crazy to imagine that in the hypothetical simulation a person's consciousness would be given degrees of freedom but have imposed constraints?

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by wlesieutre on Thursday October 04, 2018 @05:24PM (#18143805)
>The simulation has to be 'good enough' to make a thinking person (win the lottery); my mind has to be only smart enough to think of multiple universes but not perceive the obvious simulation artifacts; I have to be written (as a simulation myself) to be capable of accepting multiple universes.

But how could we possibly know what are simulation artifacts without knowledge of the rules of the outside universe? Paraphrasing an old SMBC comic, we live in a universe with a maximum speed, a minimum temperature, and a rule that position and momentum are only knowable to certain tolerances. If I were writing a universe simulator, heck yeah forced locality of side effects within the light cone makes the simulation and memory structures much more manageable.

Is that just the natural state of how things exist? Or are they constraints from simulation optimization within a parent universe where objects move infinite distances along 20 spatial dimensions as fast as they'd like? Depending on the rules outside, maybe our light speed limitations don't even help with simulation optimization and they just put that rule in here for fun to mess with us.

I just don't see how we have any grounds for talking about the odds of being a simulation based on absolutely no information. Best case we can say "If I make these assumptions about the parent universe I can draw X conclusions," but that doesn't mean much.

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by ohyes on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:25PM (#18141320)
If you were a puddle, you would be prone to think “gee, this hole is the perfect shape for me.” When it turns out you’d fit any shape hole we put you in given sufficient quantity of water. Because the hole determines your shape, not an intrinsic property of you.
Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by CPLX on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:41PM (#18141473)
If you were said puddle, however, what’s the difference?
Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:45PM (#18141496)
Whether or not the puddle was made for you
Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by Razengan on Thursday October 04, 2018 @11:01PM (#18145419)
If you had said “the hole” instead of puddle and this was Reddit, I would have linked that Junji Ito short story [0].

[0] https://imgur.com/gallery/ZNSaq

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by coldtea on Thursday October 04, 2018 @02:03PM (#18142132)
>Since we even ask ourselves "Are we a limited simulation artifact, or a real thinking person?" the answer is right there in the question.

That's a false dichotomy. Why couldn't a simulation include "thinking" and such "self-doubt"?