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Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by gigatexal on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:02PM (#18132882)
What am I missing? Looking at the example for java it looks a lot more complicated and a step back from docker and its layers concept.
Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by sclevine on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:42PM (#18133395)
Dockerfiles require you to rebuild lower layers when any upper layers change, even though the OCI image format doesn't care about this. Cloud Native Buildpacks can intelligently choose which layers to rebuild and replace. Additionally, certain layers can be updated en mass for many images on a registry (using cross-repo blob mounting, with no real data transfer!), which is useful for patching CVEs quickly at scale.

The samples take advantage of this (as well as a separate transparent cache) in order to demonstrate the different aspects of the formal spec. A simple buildpack is not necessarily much more complicated than a simple Dockerfile.

Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by gigatexal on Thursday October 04, 2018 @05:09AM (#18138278)
Yes, if the underlying layer’s hash changes then it has to be rebuilt. But if you just change index.html it caches the other layers and builds are very quick.

My issue with Buildpacks is that it looks like a glorified bash script (which is a skill I am not bashing — pun not intended) whereas a dockerfile is much more human readable and the idea of layers, for a guy coming from a systems background, is much more intuitive for me. The analogy of a very lightweight VM makes perfect sense to me which means I’m much more productive with it.

Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by jacques_chester on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:07PM (#18132967)
There are several audiences.

1. Developers.

What you need to know is: it just works. You don't even need to write a Dockerfile any more. The buildpack turns your code into a well-structured, efficient runnable image with no additional effort.

2. Operators.

What you need to know is: oh thank god no more mystery meat in production. Patching the OS is a ho-hum affair instead of a stone grinding nightmare that turns your developers into a white hot bucket of rage because you have to nag them or block them from deploying or both.

3. Platform vendors, buildpack authors and curious passers-by

What you need to know is: All the other stuff about detect, analyse, build or export.

Unless you are in group 3, the basic thing is that Buildpacks require less effort than Dockerfiles with more safety and faster builds.

Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by coredog64 on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:01PM (#18133645)
I don't think you're missing anything. It's vendors that don't do Docker trying to stay relevant in a Docker/Kubernetes world. By making Docker more complex, said vendors can continue to charge $500/pod for OSS k8s.
Re:CNCF to Host Cloud Native Buildpacks in the Sandbox by jacques_chester on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:05PM (#18133685)
It's opensource and you can run it yourself, which has incidentally been true since before either Docker or Kubernetes existed. We've got an open PR to add Cloud Native Buildpack support to Knative Build. You can take these containers and run them on whatever Kubernetes you like.

Disclosure: I work for a Said Vendor.