News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:05AM (#18119899)
Frankly, I can't really understand how come people believe what you just wrote. Yes, technology created many problems, but we can't solve them by doing less technology, without reintroducing problems we've already solved. We can either not solve them, or try to solve it with more progress (likely introducing new problems as well).

In other words: we dug a hole for ourselves with technology, but the only way we can dig ourselves out of it is with more technology. This is pretty much obvious.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by nouripen on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @06:38AM (#18120318)
The person wrote "an improved technology used by the same humans." The last 3 words ("the same humans") is crucial and it's important to charitably interpret what it may mean, so their position makes sense. (And it does make sense.)

Tech is a tool. In our society, tools have owners, wielders and people who commission their making. Tools are designed to have certain benefits and limitations; purposes they amplify and dampen. (For example, DRM is designed to dampen the ability to copy without permission.)

Later, you define tech as "human capability of solving problems and adapting environments". To that, we can add, "And in particular, the constraints we put on that capability." Tech is a massively collaborative venture (from children who mine raw materials, to societies that fund a certain kind of tech and not others). Therefore it's social. Absent "an exponential improvement" in social organization, "an exponential improvement in technology" may just amplify dystopian impulses.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by paganel on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:18AM (#18119963)
> In other words: we dug a hole for ourselves with technology, but the only way we can dig ourselves out of it is with more technology

I used to be a technofile, at least an internet-ofile, that's for sure, but I kept reading the same and same discourses about how this time things will be different while in reality things were becoming worse and as such I've started changing my mind.

> This is pretty much obvious.

Honestly, I don't see the obvious in that, quite the contrary, what you're basically saying is that we have used thing A (technology) to dig ourselves into a very big hole but we will dig ourselves out if only we would keep using the same thing A (albeit in a changed, improved form?). I can't really understand this type of reasoning.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:32AM (#18120033)
> how this time things will be different while in reality things were becoming worse and as such I've started changing my mind

Care to give any examples? Things are almost universally becoming better for most of humanity. Of course, we know a lot of this is unsustainable and will come back to bite us later (unless we develop new techology to cope), but if you compare this year to pretty much any year in the past, things are better.

> what you're basically saying is that we have used thing A (technology) to dig ourselves into a very big hole but we will dig ourselves out if only we would keep using the same thing A (albeit in a changed, improved form?)

Yes, because if you're willing to talk about a single "thing A", then this "thing A", or "technology", is literally human capability of solving problems and adapting environments. Viewed like that, there's no other solution by definition.

And yes, I'm sort of saying that. It's easy to think "technology" is just smartphones and cat memes and bullshit SaaS startups. But technology is much more than that. An Internet company isn't going to save us. But small & safe nuclear reactors just might. Breakthroughs in carbon sequestration just might. New farming methods, new fertilizers, new GMOs. Better batteries, better renewables, improved recyclers, might be just enough to stave off the next disaster, to relieve the pressure we've been putting on the environment for the past couple centuries, and start to repair the damage.

Ultimately, what are the alternatives? Doing nothing? Prayer? Mass depopulation (which is also a likely consequence of the prior two)?

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by paganel on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @06:21AM (#18120259)
> Care to give any examples?

Global warming correlates pretty well with the Industrial Revolution and with technology's breakthroughs from the last 150 years, give or take.

And the second one, which has started actually scaring me more and more lately, is the rate of insects' decline. A couple of years ago I was commenting on this very website about how I could still see lots of dead insects on my car's windshield after a highway trip, while HN-ers from countries like Germany and Austria couldn't (I live in Eastern Europe), but this summer I've noticed for the first time that I've started seeing the same phenomenon, i.e. my windshield is almost clear from insects now after a highway trip. More than that, my dad (60+, has never accessed the Internet, not an environmentalist by any means) has also started noticing this phenomenon while recently making hay in a remote village close to the Carpathians, he told my brother that there weren't that many insects and bugs anymore compared to other summers (when you're making hay you kind of notice the presence of insects and bugs). My brother confirmed that that is true, but that it's a good thing, as those bugs tended to bite the hay-makers.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by fallingfrog on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @07:50AM (#18120638)
more might not be the right word. different perhaps. Technology is such an ill defined term, it's easy to talk past each other.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by glitchc on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @12:07PM (#18122915)
Let's play with that notion for a bit: If technology is a tool, let's say akin to a spade. A spade gets you into a hole. Will more spades ever get you out of a hole? Sounds like you need a ladder instead.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @12:19PM (#18123026)
Technology is all the tools. With a spade you got into a hole. With a ladder you'll climb out of it. Hopefully with treasure. Then that spade might help you fill the hole back in.

Particular technologies are highly intertwined - both directly and causally - so you can't really micromanage this. You have to push for technological develoment as a whole, and trim developments here, encourage there. For instance, we wouldn't be talking about renewable energy sources were it not for coal furnaces and internal combustion engines that allowed the world to progress to the point we even can exploit renewables. In this case not only we need the ladder because of the spade, but we also can have a ladder because of a spade.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by glitchc on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:24PM (#18123710)
I think that's what you need to realize. Technology is only one kind of tool in our toolbox for shaping humanity. Other tools include:

- Policy: With regards to technology, who's in charge, how we use it.

- Laws: How do we protect vulnerable (defenseless) people from the negative repercussions of technology.

- Philosophy: How we think about things, treat other humans, our environment.

And I'm saying all of this as a technophile. The same tool that got you into the hole is likely not the tool that will be useful for getting you out.

Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:33PM (#18123804)
The tools you mention are also intertwined, with technology in particular being in the driver seat of changes in the other areas you mention. Therefore, it'll still be a necessary component of the solution, even if it won't be the only one.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by glitchc on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:59PM (#18124066)
I firmly disagree. While technology is certainly an enabler, either to implement the solution or to enforce it of a particular solution, it is not the tool from which the solution must be derived. The intertwining that you envision emerges when decision-making bodies look at a particular technology and decide how it should influence humanity.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by Notorious_BLT on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @12:23PM (#18123083)
Sure a spade can get you out of a hole, you can dig a ramp. And many hands make light work. Weak metaphor, really.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by adrianN on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @12:18PM (#18123024)
I think your argument too simplified to be applicable to reality. What would the ladder be in your analogy? A dramatic reduction in population and a return to pre-industrial subsistence farming?
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by glitchc on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:26PM (#18123748)
Those are all policy solutions, and they come about when policy is used as a tool. I'm actually not advocating these particular solutions, just the use of policy as a tool, a different one, from technology.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:38PM (#18123853)
Policies are usually feasible only as much as technology of the day allows it; try to go beyond what's technologically supported, and it'll either be impossible, or you'll have to force people at gunpoint.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by PakG1 on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:07AM (#18119910)
I believe parent lacks faith in humanity and basic human nature to use that new tech properly to properly solve the new problems.
Re:Google DeepMind Founder Demis Hassabis: Three Truths abou... by sometime on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:55PM (#18126038)
The problem is that more technology also creates even more dangers that we would need to work on the same time. Whether we invest more or less in tech does not seem to affect the outcome, but how much of it is done with foresight and additional safety research.