You know what pisses me off.

There's this continuous drumbeating that we need to produce more scientists and engineers. So I went and got a PhD in Physics.

By the time I got my PhD, the American Physical Society announces that they estimate that 3% of my graduating class would get permanent jobs in their field.

So, the physics PhD mill encourages a few thousand of our brightest young people every year to spend 5-9 years of their youth getting a credential that's worth less than a roll of toilet paper. (At least you can wipe your ass w/ a roll of toilet paper)

At least I got an all-expenses-paid vacation in Europe for a year (a postdoc,) but I drifted for another three or four years afterwards before settling on a somewhat remunerative and satisfying career.

This sort of experience, where you're set up to fail, but made to feel like it was your own fault, can have a devastating effect on a person. I've mostly healed from it now, but so often I have to answer questions like "Why aren't you teaching?" and "Aren't you too smart to be a computer programmer".

The older generation does owe the younger generation realistic guidance and training to start careers and keep society running. When it sets up machines to chew up young people and spit them out, it wrongs them.

> By the time I got my PhD, the American Physical Society announces that they estimate that 3% of my graduating class would get permanent jobs in their field.

What was that percentage at the time you started your PhD?

My brother has 2 degrees in Physics and can't even get a job at Trader Joe's. Apparently the anthropology majors are more savvy in identifying backup jobs and have already filled all those positions.

Quant hedge funds, maybe?

I know a few that suck up physics and math PhD's dissuaded by dwindling academia/research. Perhaps it's a soul-draining job, but the pay is good. Most likely you will have to program, but since you're here I don't think that will be a problem.

I end up talking to recruiters from D.E. Shaw just about every six months. One time I showed up at a conference Sun put on in the city and asked a question about using the hardware for main memory databases and that got the attention of one of them.

Hedge funds are pretty cool and pretty lucrative, but the only thing I really want to do now is information extraction, semantic databases, stuff like that. Finish the job that Doug Lenat started. And if you think that's crazy, you're one less competitor that I have.

So it's not about not being able to find a job if I read this correctly. You just haven't found one that will make you do exactly what you want to do.

yes

I think you, and a lot of other people in our generation, have misinterpreted the generalization ‘You need to go to college to get a good job’ as ‘You will get a good job if you go to college.’ These two are not the same thing.

College may generally be a requirement for a good job, but college alone does not entail a good job.

i.e. the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions.

Well, if you think society is unkind because it's tough with a degree, I'm not sure what you'd think about what it's like without one. :-)

I don't have a degree, I only went to one college class on psychology before dropping out. Currently I'm the IT Security Officer for a half billion dollar health network.

I'm not the normal person without a degree, but the time I didn't spend in college/university was spent learning about computer security. I didn't blame anyone for things not turning out how I wanted, I did something about it.

Someone once told me that there are only two ways to change a situation: you can change the conversation you are having with people or you can change the people you are having the conversation with. You have to be in the conversation though.

I don't have a degree either, but if you have one and are complaining about lack of opportunity, I'm the wrong person to talk to. :)

Well, you'd have 4 or 5 years of job experience, 4 or 5 years of a salary and no student loans.

I think he's referring to when you join the workforce at the same time your peers are going off to college. Sure you might come out ahead of them in 4 or 5 years if you are driven but your likely to be in line from some fairly menial work to start off.

That's retarded thinking. School is cool, are you telling me that you would have been better off without any schooling? Think of all the habitual class cutters, and delinquents in your class in high school, (I'm sure there were plenty in all schools.) Sure, they may have jobs, but working at fast-food or cleaning places when you are 30yrs, 40yrs or 50yrs old isn't very attractive. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with working at these places if you have no choice. My parents worked at these places, because they were new to this country, and their options were truly limited. I know for a fact they would be hurt/disappointed if I didn't learn from their situations.

Sending you to school was not bad advice. Are you saying that you wouldn't tell that to your kids? What would you say to your kids? How do you want to approach this? At some point, you need to take responsibility for your actions. I'm not happy where I am now, but I don't blame anyone else for it. I made choices, and I will continue to improve myself, because after all what is the alternative? Give up?