The idea that Tesla is drastically missing its production targets is overstated. It originally claimed that what was later named the Model 3 would begin production in 2017. This claim was made as far back as 2014. This occurred as projected. It has since been ramping up steadily. The rate of that ramp up has been slower than initially projected, but is well within the long-term projected numbers.

Critically, Tesla ramp up is already high enough that it is now leading the US in sales of electric vehicles. The numbers are decidedly in favor of Tesla, who sells almost as many vehicles a month as the other electric providers sell in a year.

This should be a good thing in your eyes, considering the impact of climate change which will be felt by this generation. However, the legacy of effect of sowing doubt about climate change and automobiles is bearing itself out. The seeds were sown and they now sprout. Enough idiots were convinced to bet against renewable energy and now they're going to do their best to damn the rest us.

This seems to me like a woe to the world moment. The world is trying to take down someone seeking its good. It reminds me of the persecution of Jesus Christ. Read through this thread and see the false witnesses being refuted by his co-laborers and friends. Read the testimony of the people saying that his product is good. Read the empirical reports on the quality of his work.

When the righteous are persecuted, it is done, not because they are evil, but because they are good. Nobody is afraid of the incompetent fool, but rival automaker executives line up to plead that Elon Musk should be removed from his position, now that they realize the danger they are in.

> The idea that Tesla is drastically missing its production targets is overstated.

The target misses seem like quite a bit more than tiny, immaterial/technical misses. July 2017 projection of 1500 Model 3s in Sept and 20,000 in December with actuals of 260 and 2425 (17% and 12% of target, respectively).

[0] - https://www.statista.com/chart/12415/tesla-deliveries-and-mo...

Word choice tip, intended as incidental and constructive:

It's "sowing doubt" (as in sowing seeds or sowing discord, not as in sewing clothes).

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it. I also appreciate the extra effort you put into making sure I interpreted in the spirit in which it is given. It can be hard to understand intent via text.

You're right. They definitely aren't immaterial misses. I'm not trying to deny that there are misses.

I'm trying to talk about the vector that Tesla is representing and the way that vector makes the claims about their misses less important. There is now a new trend in the auto industry, with the monthly sales of ICE vehicles going down every month and the number of electric vehicles sold every month going up. Tesla is now projected to have a vehicle within the top 20 most sold vehicles in the United States. They are projected to be first by vehicle revenue for a single model. They are doing worse than they wanted, but not terribly. They need support, in my view, so that they can continue their mission of electrifying transport. Not to be torn down, which feels almost suicidal at societal scale for as long as the other manufacturers still make most of their income on ICE vehicles.

Though, I suppose legislators will eventually ban those vehicles outright, it is already starting to happen in some places.

Hope you have a wonderful day. As for me, I'm in the house of mourning. I'm certain that more people are going to suffer in the future. It has me really down. I'm watching people trying to bet on disasters occurring, seeing another person realize this and try to do something to fix it, and then seeing that blow up in the most horrible way. It is tragedy. Already, I have friends and family that have been impacted by climate change. I can't stop caring about them.

We're late on stopping climate change. So is Tesla. It sucks.

> Enough idiots were convinced to bet against renewable energy and now they're going to do their best to damn the rest us.

No one is betting against renewable energy. They are betting against a company drowning in debt that has been poorly ran with a CEO who has been charged with securities fraud.

And please do not try to compare Musk to some modern day Jesus Christ. My bible studies are a little rusty, but I do not remember Jesus buying up multiple mansions [1], doing shady bail outs for family like Solar City [2], or leveraging himself to the hilt on a company that is in a crisis [3].

[1] https://variety.com/2016/dirt/real-estalker/elon-musk-bel-ai...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/08/09/solarcity...

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/05/18/musk-has-...

There are people actively experimenting with manipulating people through feeding a process which produces division. They have confessed to this [1]. Some people are choosing to bet against Tesla as a result of this. The knowledge doesn't come with the disclaimer when you get it secondhand.

But, you're right that I'm speaking too broadly when I say it is a bet against all renewable energy. Thank you for removing this speck from my eye. I appreciate it.

As to your being offended by my reference: First off let me be clear that Elon Musk is a man. He cries the tears of a man. He has the many failings of a man. Many talks in which he describes his life makes it clear that he hates it and would not recommend it to others. Part of what is feeding into that these days is the cruelty directed toward him, much of which is not fully justified by the ever so slight nature of his failings.

Now as to your attempt to show Elon Musk as having done some sort of wrong? Let me remind you of some of your rusty scripture:

Jesus Christ talks about the many mansions of his father. He does not need to buy them. He made them. All things are made by and for him. Therefore, I'm not about to condemn someone for having mansions, in isolation from the rest of their deeds [2]. Solomon also had incredible wealth. Rather than calling that evil, Jesus Christ described Solomon as wise.

As to bailing out family? Jesus Christ came to save us, despite our sins. A healthy person doesn't need a healer. Moreover, we are described in scripture as children of God. So I'm also not about to condemn a person for trying to help someone related to them. Especially since I consider the continuance of solar deployment to be a moral /good/. That said, I've read the reviews of SolarCity. Clearly SolarCity is falling well short of the rest of Tesla given customer reviews of the company. Hopefully they manage to get things together at some point. That would be wonderful. Eventually, I expect solar to be a dominant provider of energy. It seems to me like a good long-term investment.

[1]: https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1008405211432570880

[2]: TL;DR for the people who didn't read the article: He bought mansions. The mansion are near another. He converted one it into a school for his kids and others he knew who presumably were interested in attending. The other was for his wife, who was interested in having the option of alternate living arrangements. Another is thought to house security staff. It is a tabloid piece, trying to make a sordid story of Elon Musk's personal life for the entertainment of gawkers.

I'm ignorant of the practical aspects here: aren't shorts self-fulfilling eventually if the people taking this positions are powerful enough?

If I'm long on Tesla, then I lend my shares for someone and the shares happen to fall at all (normal market variations) then I lost money. If I see more short orders then surely I'm going to get antsy, move to "a more stable share", pushing the price down a little, making some other short positions come off and starting the snowball rolling.

Add to that the ability of people to win on large short positions by selling shares 'they' are holding (pushing the price down), or knowing what major news outlets are publishing in advance, and any inkling of weakness gets multiplied beyond reality.

Surely you'd be stupid not to respect a major trading operation going short on a company you're long on; but that makes the position easy to manipulate?

If you see the sharks circling ready to depress your share price the temptation to blip the share price with an announcement "free cake for all shareholders!" is going to be strong. Especially if that might save the company.

Teach me oh wise ones, where am I wrong, what am I missing.

(I'd guess one thing would be the ability to hide the origin of bids/buys; I assume these are public.)

If you see vultures circling a dying or dead animal, does it mean they killed it? The vultures show up when something is dying or dead.

TSLAs financials have been a disaster for a long time. Its stock price has been completely disconnected from reality for a long time. Musk/TSLA fans have buoyed the stock price, but people are starting to realize that even if the TSLA car is nice it doesn't mean it's a good company.

> aren't shorts self-fulfilling eventually if the people taking this positions are powerful enough?

Powerful enough to do what? There is not some grand short conspiracy. TSLA and Musk have given the shorts all they need. Yes, a lot of short interest could cause people not to go long, but because people use short interest as a proxy to something is wrong at the company. It only takes 2 mins of research to see that TSLAs financials are a disaster. The CEO is on Twitter calling people pedophiles and now looks to have committed securities fraud. The shorts are a symptom of the problems of the company, they are not the cause.

> Add to that the ability of people to win on large short positions by selling shares 'they' are holding (pushing the price down),

First, you're making an assumption this person holds enough shares to move the market (millions of shares change hands per day in TSLA). Second, there are all sorts of rules around market manipulation of that type. If someone is moving that kind of money to move TSLA with the sort of daily volume it has, then that person is on the radar.

You know Musk how could screw all the shorts? Get off Twitter and execute. Hit a target more than once a year. Actually make some money. Unfortunately it may be too late because of the TSLA debt load (added to by the Solar City bailout which was itself shady).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/08/09/solarcity...

It was intended to be more of a general question on shorting, but thank you for your analysis - I shall cogitate on it; I'd certainly agree Tesla has problems.

> use TSLA as a way to personally finance a lavish lifestyle

The others I get but this seems like an odd personal attack. What CEO of a huge public company doesn't live a "lavish lifestyle"? Or is this just supposed to make us hate him more because he's rich and we're not?

Perhaps it was harsh, and I can't find the article right now outlining the multiple mansions, etc... Outside of that, I don't care how rich someone is, but the problem is that he's using TSLA stock as collateral for large personal loans. This puts enormous pressure on him to maintain a stock price above $X at all costs. Assuming he has used all of the other money borrowed to fund his other companies, if TSLA goes down could it take down all of his companies? That I'm unsure about.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/05/18/musk-has-...

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Lol. Musk over extended. Plain and simple. He played it risky and now, when it didn’t work out, he is pissed.

In response he waged war via twitter on those who took risks in the other direction. Would have been wiser for him to focus on finding a way to cut his losses so he can continue fighting. Instead he played with fire and was burned.