I don't believe it's that simple. Many people have some emotional stake in the acceptance and quality of their efforts; telling them that the code they wrote won't be accepted because X, Y, and Z will almost certainly rub many the wrong way.

And what of questions about their process? I've seen LKML questions along the lines of, "This code produces many warnings when compiled; did you even compile it?" It's a valid question, if a little terse, and almost certainly insulting.

Asking if somebody compiled the code is kind of shitty, yeah. Assume good faith. But even that is nowhere near the kind of direct and point-to-point insults that some folks, particularly Linus, have gone to on occasion.

I think that you are arguing apples and apple pies.

Assume good faith, certainly; but when compiling the code shows strong evidence that the assumption was incorrect...

Questions of process are made valid when it becomes clear there may be a flaw in the process which was applied. Asking them if they compiled the code is warranted, is it not?

No; it's just being shitty, and to be frank I think you know that.

"This code has more warnings than we accept under our process; please remedy." You aren't telling onlookers that they will be lit on fire for the temerity to contribute, you aren't causing anyone to lose face and you aren't hurting anyone. No aspersions, no chilling effects, and a positive path forward. Done and done. Everyone wins. To do otherwise is inhumane.

> "This code has more warnings than we accept under our process; please remedy."

That fails to address the possibility that their process is broken, and so achieves the possibility of inducing technical debt when these issues will inevitably arise again.

Fixing process can be as important as fixing code.

Sure. OK. Where does insulting people come into that?

There have been a lot of electrons perturbed dancing around that that's what we're talking about, yes?

It doesn't? But I believe that I've made my point: it was not so simple to communicate as first suggested.

I'm not pro-insult, not by any means.

Do you think just saying “this is broken in this way” has an identical effect to yelling at someone for being thoughtless?

It seems you think one approach is clearly worse.

But as a thought experiment can you imagine how each approach might have real tangible advantages?

It does not have an identical effect. For one, the listener has a reason to listen to you with regards to the former. For two, everyone else is not provided with a reason to pull the ripcord and avoid you entirely.

I understand the point of view that yes, it may have advantages to abuse people for your immediate and short-term desires. The attempt to cast abuse as valid for those advantages belies the truth of a nasty participant in the body politic.

I think saying “this sucks” can actually make certain personality types want to really dive in and analyze their own thought process.

I’ve wotked with people who genuinely respond well to that kind of feedback. It seems you think one-size fits all, and fits every situation?

In a public space, which is the implicit context of everything we are talking about here? No. Because listeners matter, too.

If you want to tell somebody in a 1:1 "this sucks" when you know--know, not assume--that that is their preferred mode of communication? Sure. Fine. I think that resorting to such modes of communication makes you a lousy leader because it's important to train your people out of high-tension and low-value communications, but fine. But y'know what? Nobody here is talking about that situation, so table it and move on.

I won't reply to your diversion again.

Is it better to train myself to not be affected with insult ? If some one say to me "No, you stupid pile of sheet, I won't merge this pull request because of X, Y, and Z." I'll just ignore the insult part or at very least to not let myself negatively affected and move on.

No, it's not.

It is better to respond coolly to assholish behavior. But it is not better to allow it to remain unchallenged. Not challenging assholish behavior means that it becomes a community norm and is then incumbent upon everybody else to "train" themselves, as you say, to ignore the behavior of a minority of assholes. It hands the responsibility of defining what the culture is to those assholes.

Letting the assholes normalize the culture is bad. It decreases uptake. It increases, even if people "train" themselves, the likelihood of burnout and of departure. And it makes the world, even if incrementally, a worse place.

Isn't is easier to change one person namely myself, rather than try to change one other person, let alone many?

The culture and the world always evolving and changing, it can be worse or better or whatever, most importantly for me is how can I make myself adapt to the every situation and make the best of it.

I don't care about "easier" and I don't think you should either. Why would "easier" be even on the radar?

"Changing yourself" and letting rot fester is of little value to anyone. Be so mildly discomforted as to push back on other people's nasty behaviors and you make the world a better place.

Do what is right.

Because is practical, obviously changing myself to adapt to every situation has value for me, it makes a world a better place for me. what is right is relative, this is what I think Right.

No, because you're never going to do that, and in trying, you're probably going to cause yourself to send out more insults to others. You're also going to normalize a culture of calling everyone a "stupid pile of sheet" or worse when something goes wrong, which leads to a pretty unwelcoming and hostile atmosphere.

These days there is hardly any insult that can negatively affect me. I found it can be useful skill to have.

It's unlikely that someone can be impervious to all and every type of insult and at any point in your life, as long as you are human.

In some cultures e.g. Japanese, being publicly accused and insulted is worse than insulting - it's a mark of shame that doesn't go away.

Unfortunately people simply can't rewire their brain, especially as adults, and that's why good manners exist.

> It's unlikely that someone can be impervious to all and every type of insult and at any point in your life, as long as you are human

Sure, but I can always make the effort and try

>Unfortunately people simply can't rewire their brain, especially as adults

I think It works both way. Some asshole can't simply be not asshole.

Everyone, modulo the pathologically mentally ill who require at least some level of direct and personal care (and who, frankly, are such a vanishingly tiny minority that optimizing for that case is silly), can choose to not be an asshole.

Someone's ingrained bad habits may make this harder.

Tough.

It's a choice; make it.