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Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by yummyfajitas on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @01:30PM (#1807923)
My statement was a conditional one, as you can see from the words "If this is true". You can disagree with the hypothesis this is based on, but that does not invalidate the conditional conclusion.

ZachPruckowski and RyanMcGreal seem to be claiming that variation in teaching methods has little effect on achievement, and demographics/non-school factors seem to be the major cause of variations in achievement. If teaching is not a major cause of achievement, we should not waste time and money on it. Similarly, we should not waste time and money on shark repelling sticks or homeopathy.

But I should point out that the anecdote you repeat seems to imply that teachers don't have a particularly large effect on achievement. As you say, "even there you had problem kids who refused to make any effort" and you had "the ones willing to read the book for its own sake". The teacher won't help either of these categories of student very much. Supposing, for the sake of argument, that these two types of students make up 2/3 of the class, and a good teacher can improve the grades of receptive students by 20% over a crappy one, then teacher quality only accounts for 6% of the achievement of the class.

Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by dasil003 on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @02:14PM (#1808104)
Did you even read what I wrote? This response is an utter reading comprehension failure from the beginning to the end. Seriously, this is maybe the worst response I have ever got on HN.
Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by ZachPruckowski on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:07PM (#1808318)
Teachers can definitely have a large impact. But students spend 80% of their time outside the school. You could have the best teacher on the planet, but if they're not getting reinforcement from outside the system, there's not a lot you can do. If three wheels have their brakes stuck, it doesn't really matter how fast the fourth is turning, you're not going anywhere. It's not that we shouldn't work on our schools, but we have to approach raising children holistically - it's not enough to have them in school for 6 hours a day for half the year, we need parents to be involved and we need to make sure those kids are getting a basic level of stability outside of school.

Then there's the Hierarchy of Needs issue. Before you can really learn and grow and develop, you have to fulfill your basic needs. If you're starving, then the only fractions you're able to focus on are fractions of a sandwich.

Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by yummyfajitas on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @03:15PM (#1808342)
If three wheels have their brakes stuck, I turn the car off. I'm not going anywhere and I might as well save gas.

By the way, no one in America (besides anorexic rich girls) is starving. Gluttony is the only food-related problem faced by the poor, starvation hasn't existed for a while.

Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by ExcilSploft on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @02:24PM (#1812206)
"By the way, no one in America (besides anorexic rich girls) is starving."

This absolutely not true, some students only meal of the day comes in school with reduced or free lunch. Not every poor kid is accustomed to nothing but what McDonald's serves.

Re:The Myth of Charter Schools by ZachPruckowski on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @06:58PM (#1809181)
>If three wheels have their brakes stuck, I turn the car off. I'm not going anywhere and I might as well save gas.

So you're suggesting we abandon schooling altogether, and just let all those kids wander around unable to read?

>Gluttony is the only food-related problem faced by the poor, starvation hasn't existed for a while.

Would it were so.