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Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by GeekyBear on Monday September 24, 2018 @04:15PM (#18061024)
Neither was right clicking in Windows 95, but that didn't stop us from finding places where it was useful and adopting it.
Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by cptskippy on Monday September 24, 2018 @06:53PM (#18062181)
A mouse (unless Apple made it) has visible buttons. A touch screen has no indications that it can be force touched.

You only discover force touch if you mistakenly use too much force at the right time and place, which isn't an everyday occurrence. Where as a right click function could be discovered by clicking randomly with the right button which was obviously put there with purpose.

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by setr on Monday September 24, 2018 @07:12PM (#18062289)
I really doubt the discovery of force touch itself is an issue.. it was in all their ads and they made a big deal out of it; when force touch can be applied, and for what purpose, is the bigger issue. The same problem apple has with option key. Right click is somewhat sensible: it works mostly everywhere, and gives you a “little menu” that you can equivalently find from the apps main menu. and it returns some result, always.

But option and force touch.. its unclear when its applicable, what it’ll get you, if it even went through and for option, where the resulting button even is

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by GeekyBear on Monday September 24, 2018 @08:36PM (#18062667)
In Windows 95, right clicking did not always have an effect.

There was no way to know in advance if right clicking a particular thing would provide options or not.

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by cptskippy on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @09:14AM (#18066040)
Yes however the mere presence of the right mouse button indicates that there's functionality intended. A curious user might go around right clicking on things to see what the button does. Buttons are meant to be pressed.

Force Touch has no physically or observable clues to it's existence and thus does not encourage experimentation and exploration.

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by GeekyBear on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @03:42PM (#18069812)
Mice on PCs had multiple buttons before Windows 95 came along to sometimes gave that right mouse button a purpose.

Despite the fact that there was zero indication that right clicking a particular thing in Windows 95 might actually do something, and the fact that there was always an alternative way to access that information or function for those who only had a one button mouse, we managed to adopt the right click functionality anyway.

Force touch is no more a secret than the adoption of the right mouse button was in Windows 95.

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by cptskippy on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @04:34PM (#18070262)
> Force touch is no more a secret than the adoption of the right mouse button was in Windows 95.

I don't think you understand discoverability at all.

People know there's a right mouse button simply by looking at the mouse. They might not know when or where to use it but they can see the button and know it has a purpose. The button invites people to press it and they might randomly try it in various places to see if it does anything and discover a feature. The OS is irrelevant.

You can't see Force Touch. You don't know it's there until someone tells.

Re:Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac by GeekyBear on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @06:43PM (#18071175)
I believe I already mentioned that PCs came with multi button mice before Windows 95 came along and gave the right mouse button purpose?

Looking at a machine you had upgraded to Windows 95, you had no way of knowing that the right mouse button now did something, nor was there any indication of which items in the UI supported right clicking and which ones did not.

I reiterate my point that force touch is no more or less discoverable than right clicking was in Windows 95. They are both optional shortcuts to reach functionality you can already access in another way.