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Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by whitepoplar on Monday September 24, 2018 @02:09AM (#18055403)
Their "end-to-end" encryption claims as well as their schtick about being hosted in Switzerland make it abundantly clear that I will never trust their security. I would go so far as to use almost any other major email provider over ProtonMail.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by snovv_crash on Monday September 24, 2018 @03:09AM (#18055622)
Could you be more specific about these 2 issues you have?

I mean, of course the actual transit of the email from the sender to your inbox is out of their control, but after that client-side decryption is entirely feasible.

And what is wrong with hosting in Switzerland? Switzerland has very strong privacy laws.

Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by aoeusnth1 on Monday September 24, 2018 @02:47AM (#18055541)
Sorry, can you go into more detail? I don't understand your concern.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by isostatic on Monday September 24, 2018 @06:45AM (#18056550)
No OP, perhaps one could think they make such a big thing about security to try to attract lucrative accounts, which they then have backdoors into.

As you can't verify their claims, all you can do is trust. If you want end-to-end encryption you should be gpg encrypting every mail, not relying on the unverifiable word on a provider. Any provider worth its salt will know that, thus wouldn't actually advertise an insecure (as verify can't be done) system as a secure one.

Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by aoeusnth1 on Monday September 24, 2018 @07:24PM (#18062348)
I think you might be misinformed - their security is based on client-side encryption which is open source. See:

- https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-open-source-crytograp...

- https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-secure-email-open-sou...

You don't have to trust any of their server code - you only have to trust that the JavaScript blob they send you is actually the same as the open source version. This is the same threat model as trusting Signal from the App store instead of side-loading it yourself.

Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by earenndil on Monday September 24, 2018 @10:56PM (#18063237)
As has been frequently pointed out, they could choose one account and serve that account a different webpage just once, and harvest their password in order to decrypt all their email in perpetuity. This would be a trivial change that would certainly go unnoticed.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by snovv_crash on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:41AM (#18064120)
I fail to see how this is any worse than any of their competition, which does server side encryption. At least with ProtonMail there is the chance of them being caught serving backdoored client-side pages - with server-side you would never know.

I feel like the hate is a case of people thinking not being perfect is worse than being average or bad.

Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by earenndil on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:41PM (#18068586)
If protonmail is billed as a pgp replacement, then people will think it is reasonable to use protonmail's encryption instead of 'offline' encryption, when that's not the case at all.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by snovv_crash on Thursday September 27, 2018 @06:36AM (#18083311)
A version of ProtonMail with the application hosted locally, and no auto-updates, would fulfill your requirements I believe.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by earenndil on Monday September 24, 2018 @03:10AM (#18055625)
I don't really like them anymore (for similar reasons), but I don't know as I would put all other providers over them. Certainly, I think they're miles better than gmail.
Re:Ask HN: Best alternative to Gmail? by Arn_Thor on Monday September 24, 2018 @03:17AM (#18055661)
I'll bite.. Please explain further