News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by jgrahamc on Monday October 18, 2010 @06:58AM (#1802945)
It's interesting that people like this story because what I see is a pilot who first refused the body scanner and then refused the alternative (a pat down) and was refused entry to the airport. I don't see this as a big deal. He wasn't arrested and appears to have been dealt with politely by all concerned. The "stands up to the TSA" in the headline makes it sound like he's frikkin' Gandhi standing up the British. And I'm probably going to burn karma for saying this but, welcome to Reddit.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by bambax on Monday October 18, 2010 @08:02AM (#1803094)
A pilot does not need concealed weapons to crash a plane...?!? He pilots the damn machine.

You strip search him, find nothing, let him go, and then he takes command of the plane and can crash it anywhere, any time. How obvious is this??

The link you posted below, to the "FedEx Express Flight 705" incident is completely irrelevant since Mr. Calloway was not in charge of steering that plane. Had he been, he would not have tried to kill the crew.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by loewenskind on Monday October 18, 2010 @08:17AM (#1803130)
Not to mention there is a big axe in the cockpit.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by taloft on Monday October 18, 2010 @01:36PM (#1804385)
What's more is that for some time they allowed pilots to carry handguns in the cockpit (federal flight deck officers). I always found it amusing when one of the pilots got waved through carrying a firearm while the other had to go through secondary screening.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by tallanvor on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:24AM (#1803368)
First, I don't agree with the use of full body scanners.

To be fair, the TSA doesn't know that the guy is a pilot - only that he has the uniform and some sort of identification that says he is - both of which could be faked.

Unfortunately nothing is likely to change until it's not isolated incidents of people refusing to go through the full body scanners but rather 10% or more of the flying public. --I'm estimating, of course, but can you imagine the backlogs if just 10% of passengers refused every day and forced the TSA to spend time frisking them?

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by nkassis on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:39AM (#1803419)
Or people will just stop using planes. I started driving when I need to go anywhere now. I really enjoy it. I can make it from my place in Florida to my fathers home in Montreal Canada in less than 2 days. That's no worse than spending an entire day in the airport. At least in the car I get a comfortable seat, radio, and a nice scenery.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by jbarham on Monday October 18, 2010 @12:21PM (#1804058)
> Or people will just stop using planes.

Unfortunate and ironic from a safety POV since driving is much more dangerous than flying on commercial flights.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by nkassis on Monday October 18, 2010 @12:52PM (#1804195)
That's so very true. Maybe someone should explain that to the people in charge of making policies. They are putting people in danger ;p
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lkijuhygtfd on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:42AM (#1803436)
Then how does he get on the fligth deck? If his ID isn't sufficient to avoid screening - but it is sufficient to allow him to sit in the front seats ?
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by tallanvor on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:51AM (#1803471)
It's no different than passengers going through screening - the TSA ID checkers aren't likely to catch a high quality fake ID, and we know that boarding passes can be faked. That's one of - if not the best - arguments as to why it's pointless for the TSA to be checking IDs anyway.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by run4yourlives on Monday October 18, 2010 @12:57PM (#1804217)
The point still stands though. A fake pilot in the cockpit is as dangerous as a passenger with grenades strapped to his chest. More so.

When you're sitting in the driver's seat, who cares if you have any weapon you want? Ergo, anything that can get you in the driver's seat should be good enough to get you past security, faked or not.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lkijuhygtfd on Monday October 18, 2010 @01:13PM (#1804280)
Taken to extreme it would be like the Secret Service checking the president for a swiss army knife before letting him into the big red button room.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lkijuhygtfd on Monday October 18, 2010 @12:14PM (#1804025)
So who does check the ID?

If it's not the super trained government appointed guardians of our safety - the clerk at the departure gate ?

Surely there should also be a TSA agent standing behind each pilot throughout the flight if they can't be sure of the pilots identity?

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by sorbus on Monday October 18, 2010 @02:05PM (#1804466)
I flew yesterday, and arrived early enough to watch the crew get onto the plane. There was a cursory check of their IDs, but very cursory. The main thing seemed to be that everyone knew each other; the crew had worked together before, and the flight agent who checked their IDs knew them. I would not be surprised if the flight agent was given pictures of the pilots as well as their names, though, which would probably provide the greatest security (identity verified by a trusted third party, the airline, without any chance for the pilot to interact with the verifying document, as happens with passports or other ids. If you never get to see it, you can't tamper with it).
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lkijuhygtfd on Monday October 18, 2010 @03:29PM (#1804794)
Except that in the US (unless you are at the airline's home base) the checkin+gate staff are probably on contract from some staffing agency or rented from the airport.

The 'Delta connection' flight you are on is sub-contracted out to a 2 man outfit with a single regional jet.

Pay and conditions are so poor that staff turnover is huge and the number of staff is reduced so that people barely have time to glance at the person.

It's one of the hidden costs of replacing the company security guard with the cheap outside agency.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by borism on Monday October 18, 2010 @08:30AM (#1803175)
Did you notice there are at least two people in the cockpit?
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by ghurlman on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:02AM (#1803283)
Ergo, the big axe.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by borism on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:39AM (#1803420)
You find that funny?
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by yread on Monday October 18, 2010 @10:18AM (#1803564)
Not at all times and even then lots of disasters happened because the first officer didn't correct (even major) mistakes by the captain (or vice versa) - EgyptAir 990 comes to mind
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by borism on Monday October 18, 2010 @10:36AM (#1803626)
True. I thought about EgyptAir and Aeroflot cases too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but both planes didn't have FBW flight envelope protection either? That might have prevented pilot/child from upsetting planes attitude irrecoverably.

And EgyptAir co-pilot actually tried to overcome captain and recover till the end.

But I think those cases neither validate nor invalidate the need to screen the pilots?

Certainly they validate the case to have co-pilots.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lkijuhygtfd on Monday October 18, 2010 @03:32PM (#1804801)
That's what we need to make airline travel safer. The two pilots both fly with loaded handguns pointed at the head of the other pilot in case they turn out to be a crazy commie/terrorist/(delete as appropriate).
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lionhearted on Monday October 18, 2010 @07:14AM (#1802990)
Agreed. I'm actually a supporter of the scanning technology, because I think it will reduce time spent in line at airports. The shoes taking off thing still seems kind of unnecessary and it's gross that everyone walks through the screening area in only their socks.

On a side note, I fly a lot, and it seems like TSA and Homeland Security have gotten much more organized, fast, and polite over the last few years. It was pretty bad 3+ years ago, but the last few flights I took in the USA they were polite and calm and prompt. This piece seems like much ado about nothing - there's legitimate problems in the USA right now, but this event doesn't seem like one of them.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by Rhapso on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:41AM (#1803430)
Read to the end before you downvote.

It really is a matter of your goals. If your goal is to use the airport for its intended use and you do not really care about your civil rights or you trust the government wholeheartedly then the above makes sense.

I think airport security exists more for the government to save face then anything else. It allows them to take an environment made unsafe in the perception of the public and make it 'safe'. Similar to stationing a squad of police officers at a shady part of town and having them harass everybody. In the short term everybody get harassed, but they have to admit in the long run the police officers 'fixed' the problem. This is also a medium of communicating this type of message that the government has practice and established methods of doing.

It boils down to: They are doing their best. Yes, it is infringing on our rights. The only solution is a drastic change in the american people. All the fear and drama surrounding airports now, is the victory terrorists had in 9/11. It was their goals to make us afraid as a nation, and they succeeded.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lionhearted on Monday October 18, 2010 @11:40AM (#1803883)
Good comment.

> If your goal is to use the airport for its intended use and you do not really care about your civil rights or you trust the government wholeheartedly then the above makes sense.

I'm a big civil liberties guy myself, but I really think this is pretty low on the list of things going wrong in America. If you wanted to take a stand on any of the 20 worst civil liberties violations in America, does airport scanners really come in on that list? I'm much more worried about the rampant corruption and favoritism of giving money to some banks, some activist groups, some states, according to party lines and individual favors. Then you've got companies writing regulation, and the Vice President openly calling for more internet censorship and government control over the net. No one understands the tax codes, which are ridden with loopholes and confusion and bureaucracy. There's no transparency in legislation, and new bills are frequently 10,000 pages long - that's not hyperbole. There's no way citizens can understand what's actually inside one of those bills.

The airports need some security. It's a little too showy right now (liquids and taking shoes off are somewhat ridiculous, in my opinion). But the installation of scanners has got to be pretty low on the list of things that are wrong with the American government. I'm all for drawing lines and holding ground and fighting for civil liberties, but I'm hard pressed to see airport scanners as where to draw the line and fight.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by lionhearted on Monday October 18, 2010 @09:27AM (#1803379)
Hey, hold on guys. I'm writing that:

-I'm in favor of scanners because I think they'll speed things up.

-Taking shoes off seems unnecessary and counterproductive

-I fly a lot, and anecdotally it seems like TSA has improved in etiquitte and service quality

-In my opinion, this doesn't seem like an area worthy of much concern

People who disagree are welcome to express their disagreement, ideally with a reasoned, unemotional argument instead of flicking the button because you disagree with someone's reasoned point of view.

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by icefox on Monday October 18, 2010 @10:13AM (#1803555)
You don't get the choice of metal detector or scanner, you get to do both or metal + pad down. I fail to see how this could speed things up.
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by bad_user on Monday October 18, 2010 @07:11AM (#1802980)
Considering he's a pilot that flies the airplane, do you think he would need to conceal objects from security scanning to crash that airplane into a building?

Boy, those Sep 11 attacks where like a needle straight to the heart ;)

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by aberkowitz on Monday October 18, 2010 @10:11AM (#1803539)
What it comes down to is that there is no system in place for TSA to determine whether a pilot is actually a pilot. See this essay [1] for a clear argument.

[1] http://www.schneier.com/essay-130.html

Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by jgrahamc on Monday October 18, 2010 @07:13AM (#1802987)
Re:Pilot Stands Up To TSA And Refuses Full Body Scan by joezydeco on Monday October 18, 2010 @12:33PM (#1804119)
How much do you wanna bet that pilot's uniform he was wearing got him a calmer treatment than, say, a shaggy kid carrying a backpack?

The backpacker would have been tasered and thrown in jail after the first "no".