I'm pretty sure Google is COPPA compliant and will not let children, without parental consent, sign up for things on their own.

However, GSuite for Education may very well introduce a loophole whereby the onus is put on someone else to get that consent. I'm getting that vibe from this knowledge base article:

https://support.google.com/a/answer/6356509?hl=en

In any case, interesting. This story seems like something Google would be smart to respond to/clarify.

>Google is COPPA compliant and will not let children, without parental consent, sign up for things on their own.

How does Google do that? By having a 13 year old agree to Terms and Conditions/EULA (a legal contract), that the child has no legal authority to enter, which states the child obtained legal consent from the parents?

I think it's the parents who are expected to agree to the contract, thereby expressing their consent. Then if a child does it on their own, they are committing fraud against the company, which can then claim to be the victim and deflect all blame.

That’s cute but not at all how contract Law works.

Minors don’t have legal authority to enter into contracts, Google can’t claim (at least it’s not a legal defense) they were defrauded by a minor for agreeing to their contract that expressly states the minor will get their parents consent or permission. The burden is on Google.

Google would be liable for collecting data on the minor in violation of law, notwithstanding any agreement the minor agreed to, because that agreement isn’t legally enforceable.

According to this FTC site https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/chi...

You’re covered by COPPA if:

- Your website or online service is directed to children under 13 and collects personal information from them;

- Your website or online service is directed to a general audience, but you have “actual knowledge” you’re collecting personal information from a child under 13; or

- You run a third-party service like an ad network or plug-in and you’re collecting information from users of a site or service directed to children under 13.

and

Although the Rule doesn’t define the term, the FTC has said that an operator has actual knowledge of a user’s age if the site or service asks for – and receives – information from the user that allows it to determine the person’s age. For example, an operator who asks for a date of birth on a site’s registration page has actual knowledge as defined by COPPA if a user responds with a year that suggests they’re under 13. An operator also may have actual knowledge based on answers to “age identifying” questions like “What grade are you in?” or “What type of school do you go to? (a) elementary; (b) middle; (c) high school; (d) college.”

Note the "if a user responds with a year that suggests they’re under 13" part. If they don't, that would mean that there's no "actual knowledge" that the data being collected is associated with a child under 13. So "they lied to me" does appear to be a valid defense.

The law only provides if the child answered and acknowledged they are a minor that Google has “actual knowledge” in law that does != google does not have actual knowledge if the minor lied or didn’t answer. It’s simply a matter of the burden of proof, but in either case I think the evidence will be there that Google knew or should have known the user was/is a minor.

COPPA also requires “verifiable” consent of the minor’s parents...is a check box really verifiable consent? How can Even Google claim they verified who checked the consent box?

By not allowing them to do so on their own.

What’s the system/mechanism that doesn’t “allow” them to do it on their own. A legal disclaimer? That isn’t sufficient, You can’t contract around the law. In other words a minor can’t enter a contract, therefore, I can’t contract with a minor and include a provision that says the minor isn’t a minor and if they are then they got parental consent.

Google is the master of information. It would strike me if any company knew or should have known a user signing up for their service is a minor it should be them. Google literally makes it available to minors to agree to these contracts, so when you say google doesn’t allow them to...what do you really mean?

According to https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338#signup_fe... the verification mechanism is to use a credit card, which is one of the methods listed as "reasonably calculated" under point H.4 of this FAQ https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/com...

It’s clever of Google to tie verification to the parents credit card...of course in practice, in no way does that serve as actual verification a minor has consent of the parent to sign up for the Google service (I think we saw this is in enough cases with minors making in app purchases with parents credit card thru the App Store) but surely it places the parent in an unenviable position to make a claim Google unlawfully collected information on their child without parental consent even when true.

Okay, I'll go to work and suggest we delete all user accounts since it's impossible to verify that the users are above the age of 13.

Snark aside, it is difficult to comply with the law and Google (amount others) is exposing themselves to potential liability by engaging in the collection of user data for users under the age of 13. Google is in a particularly difficult position because facts/evidence would show they knew or should know users are under 13 in many (not all instances) even when the users lie.

But you are wrong it’s not impossible to verify users age, and Google doesn’t have to delete user accounts...they can simply stop collecting user data of minors 13 and younger ;)

Edit: another loosely related example (dealing with age verification) is Girls Gone Wild where they paid underage girls to reveal themselves on camera, those minors signed the GGW contracts and provided fake IDs...yet GGW was liable.

Hard to have no snark. You've provided zero useful input on how to deal with this, and expensive lawyers with more school than you disagree that what is done now is not sufficient.

What helpful input have you added? Why do you think other lawyers have “more school” than me?

As you acknowledge Google is paying some expensive in-house and outside counsel, I disagree with you that they wouldn’t agree with me. I’m sure in an attempt to minimize legal risks and potential liability they would have offered the exact solutions I have, but executives (as they often do) ignore counsel, thinking they know better, and expose themselves to the legal risks in order to collect data on children 13 and under to monetize them.

Anyway if you can show me your input, or support any of your claims (show me a lawyer with “more school” than me, or a lawyer who disagrees) that would be at least something more than trolling.

> you shouldn't expect this sort of thing to happen _by default_

When I have chrome; it always asks me if I want to save passwords....

To one extent, this is a hard lesson to the parents; Check the security settings on any computer you are using; Check the "features" of every app you install.

To another end, it's a good lesson for the parents and children that school and work supplies are for school and work.

To yet another end, those passwords, if auto generated, are likely much more secure than other ways of storing passwords.