Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by SilasX on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @02:19PM
(#18017770)
>Did Musk not actually believe in his heart
So you're saying that, the way securities law works, personal optimism is all it takes to justify any representation of any upcoming financing terms? There's no requirement beyond what's in his heart?
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by abalone on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @05:20PM
(#18019252)
I'm saying the idea of just making a misstatement doesn’t necessarily rise to the level of fraud. You have to do something with intentionality.
Oops, I mean I didn't say that. The head of the San Francisco SEC office did.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by SilasX on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @05:27PM
(#18019303)
Yes, but proving intent is the easy part of this, what with Musk's propensity to trash-talk short-sellers.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by abalone on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:20AM
(#18024780)
Disliking short sellers is not the same as intent to defraud the public. Every CEO dislikes short sellers. Intent to commit fraud is absolutely the hardest part of this to prove.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by SilasX on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @11:46AM
(#18025045)
Cool, now we can retread the part where I expressed skepticism that personal optimism is carte blanche to represent any "secured" investment terms to the public.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by empath75 on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @01:12PM
(#18017107)
It might be gross incompetence rather than fraud you’re saying.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by kitebox on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @01:11PM
(#18017088)
not to mention that what his tweet said was "Secured funding." (many news organizations misquote it as "Funding secured.")
In English, the sentence "Secured funding" is ambiguous in meaning: as a shorthand sentence, it could mean "we would only use secured funding for a transaction like this".
"Secured debt" is a thing, and therefore secured funding is a thing. Unless he clarified it someplace else in a way that was not in his favor, there is plenty of wiggle room in that sentence.
Re:Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements
by losvedir on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @02:09PM
(#18017695)
Am I missing something? The tweet[0] says no such thing.
[0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776?ref_...
No this is not textbook at all. See previous citation from the SEC re: intentionality as a key element in criminal fraud.
"Clearly and knowingly false" is just a serious-sounding way to say a misstatement. Did Musk not actually believe in his heart that the deal was basically done? It wasn't, of course, but it takes more than being incorrect to constitute fraud. It takes intent to do something you know is wrong. Wishful thinking may be fraud but it is not necessarily textbook fraud.