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Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by Animats on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @02:35AM (#18012991)
The article is kind of vague. What they seem to be doing is operating a ground penetrating radar under the vehicle so that underground details can be used as positional references. This is useful only if you have a map which includes that data. At best, this tells you where you are. It tells you nothing about what's ahead.

LIDAR units that return "first and last" returns are helpful in dealing with rain and fog. The first return (nearest thing seen) will be noisy in rain, but last (most distant thing in that direction) should be stable if it's from a solid object. "First and last" is used with aerial LIDAR surveying; "first" gives you the treetops, "last" gives you the ground.

Range gated imagers for seeing through fog and dust have been available for over a decade. These are active devices which allow filtering out anything that's outside a narrow image range gate. You can adjust the gate and get images layer by layer. This technology is used by the military and seems to be somewhat restricted.[1][2][3] In addition to fog, it can show what's behind a camouflage net, objects concealed by brush, and such.

The submillimeter radar people are slowly making progress, too.[4] Automotive radars are currently running at 77GHz, which is low resolution compared to LIDAR. The resolution gets better with frequency. There are now systems in the 300GHz range.

So the sensors needed are available now, in expensive forms, and can get cheaper.

[1] http://www.dvsmil.com/PDF/Imaging_Lidar_Seeing_Through_Cloud... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOTo-6jXOYo [3] http://www.sensorsinc.com/applications/military/laser-range-... [4] http://consortis.eu/

Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by apcragg on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @07:15AM (#18014203)
Small nitpick. The range resolution improves with increasing pulse/chirp/waveform bandwidth, not increasing carrier frequency. It's true that at higher carrier frequencies there is more bandwidth available and thus better range resolution is possible but the relationship is slightly different than "delta_r ~ frequency"
Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by rademacher on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @07:46AM (#18014344)
The relationship is cT/2, where c is the speed of light, and T is the pulse length, if the waveform is CW. Note that in this case T can limit the minimum range you can detect. Or you can use c/(2B) where B is the bandwidth of the signal as you stated. I believe the limit is wavelength/2 for resolution though.
Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by apcragg on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @01:27PM (#18017283)
Yup. And in order to get a pulse of T you need, at best, a sinc window. Resolution is intrinsically linked to bandwidth.
Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by Animats on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @02:39PM (#18017952)
Range resolution isn't the problem. Angular resolution is.

Here's a video of what's claimed to be one of the higher resolution radars.[1] About one degree. It can see cars.

Many new startups in this area.[2] Most are operating in the 77GHz range, which is OK for sensing other cars but marginal for smaller targets. LIDAR-type resolution is still a ways off.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0s5P1SQ34M [2] https://www.mwrf.com/systems/startups-trying-revamp-automoti...

Re:Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow by stevetk on Tuesday September 18, 2018 @10:38AM (#18015687)
It's important to note that scattering will get worse at the higher frequencies too. This is why radar can penetrate dust and visible light has more difficulty.