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Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:03AM (#18005507)
"the rise of Trump was and is based mostly on rednecks blaming the loss of their jobs on immigrants"

Please stop calling them "rednecks" and please don't assume that all his supporters were simply anti-immigration. While "redneckism" was a part of their campaign, Trump was elected by college educated, white suburban women too. Personally, the Trump supporters I've talked with are mostly well-off (small business owners), and mostly disconnected from world news. They don't identify as rednecks, and live in a very blue state. The usual justification goes like this "I worked for what I have, I don't think others should get hand outs" and "Politicians are all evil, I like that Trump is 'shaking things up'"

To be clear, I'm not defending Trump supporters but rather advocating for looking at them with a broader view. While my state is one of the most liberal in the nation, 50% of my neighbors identify with GOP messaging.

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by GW150914 on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:41AM (#18005817)
I think all of what you’re saying can hold for people who supported Trump before his election, to an extent. Now however? I’m not inclined to cut people who still support him any slack. He’s more than demonstrated that in addition to all of his many hideous qualities, he’s not shaking anything up. The massive tax cut, continuing with the wars, involvement in Syria, etc, are all pure status quo. The ways in which he’s demonstrably different are his open racism, misogyny, and anti-democratic, anti-immigration stances.

And polls keep showing that the people who voted for him do not regret their vote. “Redneck” may be unfair, and a slur, but the spirit of it in term of cultural identity (small-minded racists) has sadly been proven through his continued support.

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @09:53AM (#18005915)
"Now however?"

A logical thing to assume for someone who is fully engaged with current events/news. However, most don't follow /r/politics religiously, and the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it (with the outrage that they should be) so many are still blissfully ignorant. Or is it willfully ignorant?

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by mschuster91 on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:24AM (#18006184)
> the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it

Even from here in Germany, newspapers make headlines with every little tweet that Trump spews out, not to mention every tiny detail from the Mueller probe. Same for social media. You gotta run through the world blindfolded to be unaware of Trumps scandals...

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:38AM (#18006295)
Good for Germany.

In the US we have "network news" and "cable news".

Network news is what the workers, families and people who just want a quick update on the world watch. This nightly news (30-60 min) focuses mostly on local horrors like murders, robberies, fires etc. with a smattering of positive local happenings. They might touch for 1-2 minutes on national/political news, and in doing so attempt to tell it in a way that doesn't piss off 50% of their audience. People that watch this news, as their primary source are blissfully unaware of how bad it really is. They think it's just "politics as usual" and don't want to be bummed out after a long day at work.

Then we have cable news, which is is a 24/7 IV drip for retirees, stay at homes, jobless Americans and the most militant supporters on both sides. If you identify with Republicans you watch Fox News if you identify with Democrats, you watch MSNBC. Both leave you feeling outraged, exhausted and convinced the other side is "lying to you".

Then, both sides retreat to social media, where their friends and family re-enforce what they already feel - further widening the divide between Americans.

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by GW150914 on Monday September 17, 2018 @11:18AM (#18006732)
I’m all all for cynical reductionism, but come on. There are hundreds of millions of Americans and only a fraction watch Fox or MSNBC. There are newspapers, blogs, forums, social media of varying quality, PBS, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Twitter, news magazines, and much more. There truly is no excuse for being totally ignorant of politics after two years of this except deliberate action to blinker yourself.

This, in a country of cord cutters, and massive internet consumption, with access to the world’s press in addition to their own.

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @11:40AM (#18006923)
For brevity, maybe I went too far in my reduction-ism. I stand by my assertion however that "network news" isn't covering it enough (leaving most in the dark) and cable news is creating a divisive atmosphere due to the mixing of commentary and actual factual news which leads both sides to believe the "others" are lying to them.

I think you need to broaden your social circle, as the Americans I know personally aren't as connected as you assume. Every revelation I share with them is responded to with shock and disbelief. "What do you mean it's illegal but no one is doing anything about it?" or "If that was true, shouldn't those people be arrested and in jail?"

I only know a couple "cord cutters" and even those that have cut the cord, still watch network news; CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox. Facebook we know is an echo-chamber, not open to dissenting opinions by design.

Furthermore, these people aren't on Twitter, they don't even know what a "web forum" or blog really is ("is it like a website?").

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by chii on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:09AM (#18006039)
claiming ignorance is no defence in court. Why should it be a defence for trump voting?
Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:24AM (#18006185)
It shouldn't but ...these people don't have to testify in court. They get to cast a vote, in private, while also publicly decrying Trump and harmful GOP policies to their neighbors.
Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by davewritescode on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:36AM (#18006272)
They don’t identify as rednecks because most of polite society looks down on those types of people. Over the past 40 years we’ve demonized manual labor and the people who perform it as lower class and undeserving of nice things. Real success after all is an office job, just ask any high school guidance counselor.

Most people have the innate sense that something in our society is deeply unfair and they’re looking for someone to blame. Trump offers easy solutions.

What we should refuse to do is let anyone off the hook for supporting Trump. Just because you like his business policies doesn’t mean you get to look the other way when he does monstrous things like locking migrant families in detention centers.

Re:Ten years after the crisis, the contagion has spread to d... by josefresco on Monday September 17, 2018 @10:57AM (#18006495)
American identity politics started long before Trump, and long before the GOP's modern assault on governance. I just finished reading; White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America - it was illuminating.

The war against "cultural elites" started with the first "mountain men" that ran for office in contrast to the 'educated elites' from "the North". Sound familiar?

It's not liberals, leftists or elitists who started the war on manual labor - they used it to separate themselves a long time ago.

This of course was connected to slavery, which left the south under-educated and feeling personally attacked. Too much to cover here, just read the book!