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Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by jlg23 on Sunday September 16, 2018 @06:12PM (#18001493)
> Note length, tempo, velocity, progression and other stuff are minor worries in comparison. Those things can be felt, without learning.

Can it? How do you learn a piece for which you only have a sheet? I would go even further and say that the most I learned about music was from handwritten notes on musicians or conductors[1] sheets.

Yes, I can figure out a lot myself just because of my background knowledge but give me something of an obscure era/modernist fashion and I am completely lost. Furthermore, I played the flute, so tempo, for example, dictates how to start a note (lacking the English term here) because there is a huge difference of what I can do to a single note when played larghissimo in contrast to prestissimo.

And especially with lots of modern music, composers resort to their own, additional notation because classical notation is not enough to express the music on paper.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by andrewflnr on Sunday September 16, 2018 @07:26PM (#18001875)
I suspect this is simply not intended for learning pieces you haven't heard at least a couple times. This seems like the kind of thing you use if you just want to be able to play something you heard on the radio, maybe add some improv.
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by wildrhythms on Sunday September 16, 2018 @07:07PM (#18001784)
I'm also curious about the lack of rests.

I seem to recall a friend of mine having a single note on their three pages of music, everything else was rests... it was a crash cymbal part.

How would the crash cymbal player know where to play given this new notation?

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by soundwave106 on Sunday September 16, 2018 @10:10PM (#18002643)
Most music outside of the Western classical realm has heavier reliance on improvisation. Music notation there is often simplified as a result. "Chord charts" or "lead sheets" are common in jazz where only the melody is notated in standard Western notation, together with the lyrics and the chords, with the arranger or players responsible for the rest. Pop musicians sometimes just get by with Roman numeral chords over lyrics if it's a song they've heard before that they are covering.

From my perspective, excluding length and rests is problematic for this notation, though. Even lead sheets had these. Rhythm is such a huge part of music. This would be a difficult system to convey even a simple melody line to a musician unless the person also hears the song. (If this is intended to be more like tablature where this is typically what happens, then yes, it's fine.)

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by probably_wrong on Sunday September 16, 2018 @07:23PM (#18001861)
> Can it? How do you learn a piece for which you only have a sheet?

To be fair, guitar players seem to manage. I truly cannot understand how, though. Most guitar tabs are oddly silent on the topic of what to do with your right hand, and yet everyone uses them.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by zeroxfe on Sunday September 16, 2018 @07:55PM (#18002033)
This is because tablature is not meant to be sight-read. It's typically used to learn music that you've already heard.

(Note that there are a few tab formats that have rhythmic elements in them, but they're not very comprehensive.)

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by thebricksta on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:19PM (#18002918)
I assume you are talking about finger-style guitar here. In that case, most beginner books are very strict about providing staff + tab marked up with right hand finger suggestions. As the player progresses (and depending on the style), right hand fingers may progress to simply being assigned a string, or whatever feels comfortable on that line. Individual differences in technique and style can shine here.

If you are talking about picking, then that's simply a matter of picking the string. Both notations are adequate for annotating specific picking techniques. In my opinion, some muting techniques are a bit easier to read in tab notation.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by rimliu on Monday September 17, 2018 @03:50AM (#18003946)
Or it can be about strumming (which I think is the case).
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by hashkb on Sunday September 16, 2018 @08:01PM (#18002073)
Tab is a leaky abstraction and cannot be sight read. It exists because guitarists are notoriously lazy and/or because guitar is easy. That there is no piano tab, and that nearly all pianists become literate should be telling.
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by retsibsi on Sunday September 16, 2018 @10:57PM (#18002832)
> guitar is easy

Is it? I'm musically stupid, so the fact that guitar is hard for me doesn't mean much. But isn't it truer and more relevant that guitar is a popular instrument for amateur and casual players, because a) it has a big role in popular music, and b) it's accessible, in the sense that guitars can be cheap and they don't require a lot of space?

There are plenty of relatively easy guitar pieces (especially if you're satisfied with using the instrument as an accompaniment to singing, or playing single-note melodies as part of a band), but that's obviously true of the piano too, and likewise both instruments have plenty of complex and technically demanding pieces. I'm genuinely interested in being corrected, but as far as I can tell the physical technique is at least as hard, and the possible musical complexity is no different. Is there any sense in which the guitar is actually 'easier' than the piano?

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by hashkb on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:23PM (#18028462)
You're probably right about physical technique. As a lifetime guitarist, I'm certainly not going to disagree. But we're talking about notation. Guitarists avoid learning it (and invent crap like tab) because of the many true things people say below my original comment.
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by thebricksta on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:06PM (#18002868)
Hey there, easy on the guitarists.

Guitars, like other string instruments, have multiple ways to play each note. Depending on the note progression, hand position needs to slide up and down the neck of the guitar to ensure the necessary groups of notes are all easily reachable from the current position. Tablature solves this issue by telling guitar players where to place their hands. Orchestral sheet music involving stringed instrument parts often include both the standard staff and tablature.

Of course, the simplicity of tabs also make it a great way for the community to spread knowledge. A simple tab can be written down in notepad in minutes and passed along freely, whereas sheet music requires specialized software and hours of time.

This makes it very attractive to beginners who aren't looking to become professional musicians, but simply want to mimic what they hear on the radio for their friends. I can either sit you down at a piano for two years and teach you sheet music, or give you a few weeks and tabs. Will you be playing perfectly? Of course not - but you'll be enjoying yourself.

Mind you, piano notes are already in a 1:1 correspondence with the staff, so hand placement is greatly simplified and tablature would be redundant. When the bar to musical literacy is to learn how to read a notation optimized for piano, it becomes a pointless question to ask why piano players achieve literacy.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by furgooswft13 on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:34PM (#18003000)
I agree mostly. Guitar is often easier to learn for a lot of the music people want to play, pop songs with simple chord progressions. Once you get your fingers in place, strumming in rhythm is pretty natural to most people. Bar chords (and their bastard stepchild power chords) make this even easier.

Also the regular layout of the frets makes improvisation much easier as you just find the right starting point to whatever song you want to jam over, and start going up and down the same pentatonic scale pattern.

Of course all this only gets you so far, but it's enough for a lot of teenage rockstar wannabes to have fun. No harm in that at all.

By contrast most of the songs people seek to first play on the piano requires a much steeper hill to climb. Even Fur Elise can be very challenging to play at tempo for a beginner. Moonlight, while slow, still requires catching a lot of notes at once and reading a dense score with plenty of double sharps and what not (and God help you if you want to try the 3rd movement). Outside classical, it's much more difficult to get a good sound by just banging out chords, unlike strumming on a guitar. Some sort of separate melody and baseline is almost always expected on the piano.

Now if you want to rip out some mad Eddie Van Halen solos or perform classical finger-picking songs then all bets are off. In fact I'd say mastering multiple melodies at once (some sort of counterpoint) on guitar is much more difficult than piano.

And yes translating standard notation to guitar fingering is much more challenging, because it makes no sense for the guitar neck, and you have to know not just to hit say A3 but where on the neck it would be best to do that given your current position.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by TheOtherHobbes on Monday September 17, 2018 @05:45AM (#18004426)
1st movement of Moonlight needs 5-7 years from a cold start to play well. You can learn to pick out the notes in less, but it's harder to play smoothly than it looks.

The 3rd movement of Moonlight is a Diploma level (i.e. university, 10 years of playing at a bare minimum) piece.

Guitar is popular because it's the opposite of piano. You can get somewhere recognisable within six months or so. But many players plateau after that. Really good guitar isn't any easier than really good piano.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by hashkb on Wednesday September 19, 2018 @07:25PM (#18028471)
> on guitar is much more difficult than piano.

Yes of course! Classical guitar is on the level with all the other instruments. Those guitarists, of course, can all read music.

> some sort of counterpoint

Could you even write counterpoint in tab? Would it make sense? It'd be so much harder to read and write than just regular music at that point...

Edit:

> find the right starting point to whatever song you want to jam over, and start going up and down the same pentatonic scale pattern

This is very not true. It's only true for the simplest chord changes. And it's equally true and false for every other instrument. But... at the risk of being misunderstood again... guitarists are lazy and guitar affords many shortcuts.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by davidmurdoch on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:20PM (#18002922)
> hand position needs to slide up and down the neck of the guitar to ensure the necessary groups of notes are all easily reachable from the current position.

And not only that, but different positions of the same note have different harmonic volumes and other properties (especially on acoustic guitar).

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by jgibson on Sunday September 16, 2018 @06:23PM (#18001561)
> dictates how to start a note (lacking the English term here)

Intonation perhaps? I often used the word "attack" to indicate the style of start of the note when I used to play flute, but I'd say thats far from proper terminology

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by escherplex on Sunday September 16, 2018 @08:52PM (#18002296)
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by shhsshs on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:17PM (#18002411)
I think articulation would be the word here
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by escherplex on Sunday September 16, 2018 @10:19PM (#18002679)
True. embouchure is more mechanics. If you wanted to sound pedantic you probably could use the Italian accentuazione :-)
Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by hashkb on Sunday September 16, 2018 @07:58PM (#18002048)
I was going to attack the same line you quoted.

That word you are looking for is "articulation" and of course it's part of traditional notation as is everything else, which is the point you are making.

Every second spent on this type of project should be spent practicing. Music notation is hard because theory is complicated and performance is nuanced.

People won't admit it... but we're all looking for shortcuts. Learn music the hard way. Or just be an amateur, but don't try to reinvent the kick-ass wheel we've been using for millennia.

Re:Show HN: Simplified music notation by thebricksta on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:40PM (#18003030)
But is it a kick ass wheel?

Imagine if the only programming language available was C and all you wanted to be was an amateur script kiddie. It is nice to have beginner friendly languages we can start people off in, allow them to build real solutions in, but then slowly shift them out of into more nuanced code once they are ready.

Tab solves part of that problem for entry level guitarists, but there is a bit of a void in the staff.

I'm not saying that I don't like the staff - as someone who is literate, I agree, it works. I'm just saying that a simpler notation with a smoother learning curve might serve as an easier entry point for beginners who can make the jump to the full-on staff when they are ready.

(I'm not saying I like OP's project either, I think that's missed the mark too.)