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Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by lucideer on Friday September 14, 2018 @12:34PM (#17988630)
> Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy. One would have thought/hoped that they were tightly coupled.

I think this comes down to two things:

If we define "polish" as: consistency+predictable UX+aesthetics

1. openness involves interoperability, and polish is more expensive to achieve when interoperability is a requirement

2. the primary market for polish tends to value exclusivity, which—while not entirely contradictory to openness—tends towards non-openness

The combination of these two means that when you focus on polish you end up with a product line that is likely to be non-open.

The fact that the primary market for polish also tends to be economically comfortable also conveniently leads to margins that allow for privacy, but I think this is just a happy accident.

It's my belief that if we want a private + open platform we need to:

- Accept very large sacrifices* in polish because doing both is only economically viable when catering to a market that doesn't want/need openness

- Choose a different economic model where resources are available to do both simultaneously.

* Also worth noting that sacrificing quality and/or UX can lead to less privacy given that privacy depends on security and security depends on both quality, and also on UX to prevent social attacks.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by ISL on Friday September 14, 2018 @12:46PM (#17988741)
I'd argue that the GNU/Unix text interface is open, interoperable, and highly polished. The key ingredient is time.

Modern windowing systems are also very similar. A Windows 3.1 or early MacOS user would have no trouble using a computer today.

Touch and phone interfaces will get there, too, as both software and culture evolve together.

I can't wait for, and would love to support, the Debian of phone architectures. In past HN threads, it has been suggested to me that the real blocker for a good open phone OS is at the hardware/kernel level. That was the state of the hardware environment in the late nineties and early 2000s.

Give it time, effort, and support, and a great and open OS will emerge.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by danieldk on Friday September 14, 2018 @02:07PM (#17989413)
I can't wait for, and would love to support, the Debian of phone architectures. In past HN threads, it has been suggested to me that the real blocker for a good open phone OS is at the hardware/kernel level. That was the state of the hardware environment in the late nineties and early 2000s.

I would like to be that optimistic, but I am not. The PC has always been a fundamentally open platform and hardware has been supported by many OSes for a long time. When I was young, we would run MS-DOS, DR-DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.x (which was strictly spoken not an OS). After 1994 I also ran Linux and BSD and I never had any real problems hardware-wise. There was a difficult time around the turn of the century with WinModems and printers that only supported Windows. But that was more of a temporary regression.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by ISL on Friday September 14, 2018 @07:16PM (#17991859)
I remember working hard for good graphics-card support and perpetually rolling my own kernels to support even year-old motherboards.

The biggest blocker in our experimental labs for open-source software was always hardware drivers. These days, linux is extremely common and generally well-supported.

Re:Apple's best product is now privacy by minkiu on Friday September 14, 2018 @06:07PM (#17991426)
I agree with you mostly, but I think the OS is there (Linux) we just need more mainstream Open Hardware, and hopefully Librem 5 will be the one to push things forward.