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Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by tptacek on Monday September 10, 2018 @06:30PM (#17955740)
DNS is virtually never spoofed in practice because of a combination of (1) sensitive systems being built to assume the DNS was already insecure and (2) the settings where DNS spoofing is useful are already so insecure than DNS security doesn't do much to help you (for instance, coffee shop wireless).

In practice, there are two significant targets for DNS spoofing:

1. SMTP email, where TLS isn't universally required among MTAs.

2. CA domain validation.

For problem (1), we has SMTP STS, which simply establishes a long-term requirement for TLS between a pair of MTAs, sidestepping the spoofing problem.

For problem (2), there is a whole panoply of countermeasures to DNS spoofing, erratically deployed across a variety of CAs. CAs do not as a rule do strict DNSSEC validation (it's too broken), but many of them do multi-perspective lookups which make packet-level spoofing tricky to accomplish in practice.

The real solution to this problem isn't a government-run PKI that forklifts in a whole new DNS protocol, but rather a culling of CAs that can't deploy adequate countermeasures against these attacks.

Note that the Usenix paper illustrates scenarios in which DNSSEC makes this attack easier, not harder.

Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by dane-pgp on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:20PM (#17956214)
Just to clarify, it is a "government-run" PKI in the sense that some governments control some TLDs, as opposed to the CA ecosystem where a single rogue (government-run) CA can issue a certificate for any domain (happily ignoring any CAA record).

It would be nice to have something like Certificate Transparency for DNSSEC (at least for the TLDs), but for now CT has the problem that it is only a requirement for new certs, and a rogue CA could backdate a cert they maliciously created for your domain.

Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by tialaramex on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:13PM (#17956189)
> CAs do not as a rule do strict DNSSEC validation (it's too broken), but many of them do multi-perspective lookups which make packet-level spoofing tricky to accomplish in practice.

Can you give specific examples of "many of them" doing multi-perspective DNS today ?

Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by tptacek on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:45PM (#17956338)
Can't. But if I've given the impression that the majority of CAs are sophisticated, that wasn't intentional.
Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by tialaramex on Monday September 10, 2018 @09:36PM (#17956563)
So to be clear:

You say DNSSEC validation is "too broken" for any public CA to be doing that, but actually the largest (by issuance volume) does exactly that

Whereas you say multi-perspective is so prevalent "many of them" do it, but you aren't able to produce any examples at all.

Maybe time for a re-think?

Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by tptacek on Monday September 10, 2018 @09:38PM (#17956569)
I do not understand your argument at all, sorry.
Re:Spoofing DNS with fragments by JdeBP on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:54AM (#17959693)
tialaramex is mis-reading "do not as a rule" as "never" and then constructing a straw man based upon that, and is also asking you to specifically name any CA that does what you say many of them do. (-: