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Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by travisoneill1 on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:08PM (#17954212)
This is backwards. Inflation destroys the value of debt. Poor tend to be borrowers and rich tend to be lenders, so inflation is an equalizer.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by danhak on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:42PM (#17954529)
Most wealthy people borrow significantly even if they have high net worth (think mortgage on multi-million dollar home or investment property). Inflation helps them while they put their assets to work elsewhere. And it helps them far more than it helps some poor person with a few thousand in credit card debt.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by saltcured on Monday September 10, 2018 @06:18PM (#17955675)
Also, it is non-linear. The amount of reserve cash you need as an individual human approaches a limit much faster than total wealth, so the portion of your assets which must remain exposed to inflation grows smaller as a fraction of the whole. This is our western legacy of aristocrats and landed gentry in a nut shell.

Also, when you have lots of assets, you can assume that lines of credit are available whenever you might ask for them. You are less likely to tap into emergency reserves, and may also set a lower target for those reserves if you know they only need to address the most dire scenario where you might have to abandon some of your augmented lifestyle.

Finally, with large wealth you have an opportunity to diversify into many independent assets and firewall them from one another, e.g. with limited liability structures. Having one of your investments implode is qualitatively different from having your whole wealth implode. This is the entire premise of VC investment and I would have thought obvious to this audience...

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by travisoneill1 on Monday September 10, 2018 @06:45PM (#17955804)
Sure there are exceptions but inflation is (1st order) zero sum. People with a negative net worth clearly benefit and someone has to take that loss as someone is owed money. Yes there will be rich people who benefit (and more than any poor person in this scenario), but as an aggregate it will be a reduction in wealth inequality.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by AnimalMuppet on Monday September 10, 2018 @04:35PM (#17954969)
But the wealthy have more assets than debt, so they have more losses than gains from inflation. Sure, they may gain $100,000 on their house, but they lose $1 million on their bond portfolio.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by danhak on Monday September 10, 2018 @04:52PM (#17955102)
It would take a pretty unusual asset allocation to result in the numbers you just threw out there.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by longerthoughts on Monday September 10, 2018 @04:51PM (#17955096)
But inflation also implies economic growth which generally raises the value of equity holdings. The impact of inflation is dependent upon asset allocation.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by chimeracoder on Monday September 10, 2018 @05:00PM (#17955140)
> But inflation also implies economic growth

Inflation does not imply growth in real GDP, no.

> which generally raises the value of equity holdings. The impact of inflation is dependent upon asset allocation.

Ceteris paribus, inflation hurts debtholders (who, incidentally, tend to be wealthy), and it helps debtors (who, incidentally, tend to be poorer).

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by nonbel on Monday September 10, 2018 @05:43PM (#17955474)
Inflation hits prices before wages. Wage increases due to inflation always lag the price increases of the food/shelter/etc people need to buy.

Is this controversial?

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by AnimalMuppet on Monday September 10, 2018 @07:22PM (#17955969)
No, it's not controversial. However, it also doesn't seem to respond to anything chimeracoder said. You sound like you think you're arguing with chimeracoder, but I don't see which point you're responding to.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by nonbel on Monday September 10, 2018 @07:57PM (#17956129)
From a few posts up:

>"This is backwards. Inflation destroys the value of debt. Poor tend to be borrowers and rich tend to be lenders, so inflation is an equalizer."

chimeracoder seemed to be agreeing with this "equalizer" position by saying:

>"Ceteris paribus, inflation hurts debtholders (who, incidentally, tend to be wealthy), and it helps debtors (who, incidentally, tend to be poorer)."

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by AnimalMuppet on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:42PM (#17956320)
All true. But I fail to see how your point about raises happening after price increases refutes the point that inflation destroys (reduces) the value of debt.

Now, true, if you're a worker who owes money, and inflation kills your cash flow (because raises come later than price increases), it may not matter to you that the value of your debt decreased, because the cash flow problem is going to bankrupt you before the debt erosion helps you. But it's still a separate effect.

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by nonbel on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @02:52AM (#17957654)
I just don't think the fact that there is debt erosion has much impact on the gap between rich and poor. I'm talking about an income that ten years ago would get you a full one bedroom apartment now gets you living in a converted closet. Meanwhile the pay for the same work has gone from 12 $/hr to 15 $/hr.

Also, this is ignoring that anyone sane issuing debt plans for inflation and accounts for this somehow (interest rate schedule, etc)...

Edit:

Another thing, this "inflation helps the poor idea" seems to be a version of trickle down economics.

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by clairity on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:28PM (#17954399)
no, the wealthy keep their capital in assets with above average returns. the rest of us get to pay for that with below average returns, fees, and inflation.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by travisoneill1 on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:34PM (#17954455)
Yes that would explain them being rich. But I'm sure you have heard the phrase "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."

What I am talking about here is debt. Owe money on your house? Inflation makes you owe less. Lend money to someone buying a house? Inflation means you get paid back less.

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by rabidrat on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:40PM (#17954511)
It's only "less" if your wages also inflate. But your food and housing prices increase on the leading edge of inflation, and wages lag. And often they never catch up.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by chimeracoder on Monday September 10, 2018 @05:02PM (#17955159)
> It's only "less" if your wages also inflate. But your food and housing prices increase on the leading edge of inflation, and wages lag. And often they never catch up.

Except that's not true. If you're a debtor, the effects of inflation decreasing your debt in real dollars is orders of magnitude more consequential than the increase in your expenses, and that's even assuming your wages don't increase (which is generally not true either).

Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by betterunix2 on Monday September 10, 2018 @10:29PM (#17956770)
Inflation is typically priced into loans in the form of higher interest rates; this is why bond prices fall (i.e. yields rise) when the inflation rate increases (or more precisely, when people believe inflation will be higher in the future). Also priced in is the uncertainty about future inflation, which is one reason why central banks work to maintain a stable rate of inflation.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by kgwgk on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:39PM (#17954504)
How does the math work out if the wealthy have much more capital than "the rest of us"? Why have you chosen to keep your capital in assets with below-average return if you know which are the better assets?
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by zimablue on Monday September 10, 2018 @04:05PM (#17954748)
Better individual assets or better management of your assets are both gated. Privately held companies, hedge funds, financial managers. The guy who argues the parent point is Piketty in the book Capital.
Re:Can We Survive the Next Financial Crisis? by longerthoughts on Monday September 10, 2018 @05:04PM (#17955183)
On top of the access issue is the financial knowledge gap between people of different socioeconomic backgrounds. Not only are people limited in what they can invest in, but they might not even be investing at all.