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Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by oh_sigh on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:54AM (#17950135)
Could we use the word 'breed' then, instead of race? I guarantee you that if you showed me a mixed room of hundreds of native Danes and Sentinelese - I could classify them as easily as one could classify chihuahuas vs great danes.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by charlesism on Monday September 10, 2018 @05:42AM (#17950549)

    > if you showed me a mixed room of hundreds of 
    > native Danes and Sentinelese - I could classify them
What relevance does that have? Could you reliably tell a Dane from a Greek? How about a Sentinelese from a Pakistani?

When people say "race" is a social construct, they don't - well, unless they're morons - mean that people aren't more different, the more distantly-related they are. It's the categories that are the social construction. Because anyone who really thinks about it carefully enough, can see those categories are arbitrary.

If history had been a bit different, and we hadn't come to lump brown- and blue-eyed people into the same "race," you might have written this...

    > if you showed me a mixed room of hundreds of 
    > native Brundanes and Bladanes - I could classify them
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by googlryas on Monday September 10, 2018 @06:01AM (#17950631)
> What relevance does that have?

It shows, at least in this contrived example, that the information is present in the individuals and not in the brain of the classifier.

I don't understand your last point. Is it wrong to say that I could extremely accurately classify blue and brown eyed people?

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by charlesism on Monday September 10, 2018 @07:43AM (#17951032)

    > not in the brain of the classifier.
Sure, but you can see physical differences between your paternal and maternal grandfather, too, even if your culture considers them the same "race."

    > to say that I could extremely accurately 
    > classify blue and brown eyed people? 
And why not classify them as deep blue, light blue, hazel, and deep brown? Or blue, gray, and brown? Etc.

The point isn't that everyone's eye color is the same. It's that the classification is arbitrary.

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by oh_sigh on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:10PM (#17954228)
I'm not arguing that race is a useful basis for determining someone's value in society, or anything like that. Merely that it actually does exist, and different peoples at this point in history have vastly different lineages.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by charlesism on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:57PM (#17954661)
I wasn't arguing that you were a bigot. I wasn't denying that the average Englishman is more similar to the average Greek, than to the average Japanese.

I'm saying a belief in distinct "races" of people is bogus.

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by YeGoblynQueenne on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:43AM (#17951359)
Actually, Danes and Sentinelese would both be classified as belonging to the same, Caucasoid, race. From the Wikipedia article on Caucasian race:

First introduced in the 1780s by members of the Göttingen School of History,[4] the term denoted one of three purported major races of humankind (Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid).[5] In biological anthropology, Caucasoid has been used as an umbrella term for phenotypically similar groups from these different regions, with a focus on skeletal anatomy, and especially cranial morphology, over skin tone.[6] Ancient and modern "Caucasoid" populations were thus held to have ranged in complexion from white to dark brown.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by oh_sigh on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:02PM (#17954171)
According to an outdated anatomical taxonomy from the 1700s.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by YeGoblynQueenne on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @02:16PM (#17962037)
Yes, absolutely. The whole concept of race is obsolete and discussions of it are anachronistic to the extreme. I reckon, the only people who still use those terms in earnest are US law enforcement agents, racist groups and people who just haven't got the memo.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by oh_sigh on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:52AM (#17965851)
Not just law enforcement, the entire US government does. For example, you will see a question about your race on the 2020 census if you are in America: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/img/person1_hispani...
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by kgwgk on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @05:29PM (#17973565)
There are often race-related questions in job applications.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by YeGoblynQueenne on Thursday September 13, 2018 @04:40AM (#17977015)
Is that sort of thing legal, in the US? Or is it more like, it's illegal but everybody does it anyway?

I live in the UK, in the EU. Here, it's illegal to ask candidates questions about their race, religion, age, marital status, family planning etc. As it is illlegal to advertise jobs to "white male 30 yrs old" etc.

Of course, people still do stuff like that- e.g. I've been asked about my age a couple of times and apparently it's common to be asked about whether you're planning to have children soon, by interviewers, though this has never happened to me (so it might depend on the industry).

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by kgwgk on Thursday September 13, 2018 @05:10AM (#17977148)
I don’t think the UK is very different from the US in this respect. Discrimination based on race, religion, etc is illegal. Asking race, religion, etc as part of the application process is not illegal. Actually, they are supossed to do it (while preventing those details from influencing the hiring process).

The point is that there is a lot of people who do care about race, not just US cops.

https://race.bitc.org.uk/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/...

Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by pjc50 on Monday September 10, 2018 @06:14AM (#17950682)
How about instead you try to distinguish between a Tutsi and a Hutu, or a Serb vs a Croat? Because in both cases wars of mass murder have recently been fought over those differences.
Re:Has an uncomfortable truth been suppressed? by oh_sigh on Monday September 10, 2018 @03:07PM (#17954200)
Both of your examples are people who even 1000 years ago were considered the same. Tutsi and Hutu differ based on essentially their social class and profession(pastoralist vs farmer), and for Serb and Croat their religion.

Is your stance in life that, if some information has been used in the past for bad purposes, we must pretend like it doesn't exist so those bad things don't happen again?