Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s capital of startup exits

Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by toxik on Saturday September 08, 2018 @02:59PM (#17942222)

One thing that should be emphasized when comparing salaries between Sweden and other countries is how there is a secret tax baked into the Swedish salary -- arbetsgivaravgiften.

Basically, in all other nationalities (to my knowledge), you are quoted how much the company will pay for your salary. Then tax is applied, and whatever is left is what you take home.

In Sweden, you are quoted an in-between number. If you are offered $100k before tax in Sweden, that means the employer is _actually_ paying something like $143k. You will still not be getting $100k, but rather that is the "taxable income", so you end up with about $70k, but your employer paid $143k, but you agreed on $100k. Makes no sens.e

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Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by asmosoinio on Saturday September 08, 2018 @03:16PM (#17942295)

This is the way salaries are quoted in Finland as well.

I suspect it's the same for many countries - though with different percentages. And yes makes comparisons very hard.

Update: looking at this comment - this is not unique - same in Croatia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17941203

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Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by NullPrefix on Saturday September 08, 2018 @03:22PM (#17942318)

Isn't most of the Europe like that? Salary on contract is halfway between before-all-taxes and take home pay. Some taxes are paid by the employer, some others deducted from the employees salary. Way too unintuitive, but it is what it is.

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Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by toxik on Saturday September 08, 2018 @03:27PM (#17942333)

I didn't know that! But it seems difficult to me to justify this system. Cost incurred for paying an employee is tax, anything else is make-believe -- the market forces are decided on cost to the employer, not quoted salary.

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Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by nopzor on Saturday September 08, 2018 @04:13PM (#17942534)

It's the same in the USA. The percentages are just different. In the USA, if you are quoted $100k salary, it costs the company about $120k+ (depending on how you account/include things).

Yes, it complicates things, and makes comparisons a bit more difficult. But it makes sense.

In the USA, depending on the company, you will have to add in healthcare as a "cost to company". That's basically included in the Swedish taxes.

Plus you have to normalize culture and employee protection/rights.

In the USA it's not abnormal to get 2 weeks of vacation per year, less than a week of "paid parental" leave, and be expected to be available to answer emails while you're on your paltry vacation. You can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason (in most cases and states you are an "at will employee")

In Sweden, this work:life balance would be preposterous. Employees get 6+ weeks of vacation a year, over _1 year_ of _paid_ parental leave, working healthcare, subsidized childcare, etc. You cannot be fired without cause and notice.

In the USA, other than social security (which is another topic), employees get very little back for their taxes. But we have a lot of wars to pay for.

You need to look at the big picture when you compare these numbers.

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Re:Beyond Spotify and iZettle: How Sweden became Europe’s ca... by sonnyblarney on Saturday September 08, 2018 @06:51PM (#17943242)

It's the same everywhere.

You get quoted what you get paid, and you pay tax on that.

That's rational.

It's just that they way 'employer taxes' are calculated is a little different - and in Nordic countries they are massive (thereby making it feel 'hidden').

VAT when baked into prices is also kind of hidden as well.

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