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Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @12:38PM (#17892632)
Not denying the amount of work gone into LibreOffice, however I'm not sure if I agree with you on the approach (this will probably be an unpopular opinion). I find the entire ecosystem of LibreOffice a bit clunky, and it wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot of technical debt that would need to be understood before we could make any sort of contribution. Don't know why, but my gut says starting afresh would allow us to build something more useful, faster. It would make sense to use the LibreOffice code base as a guide though.
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by fooker on Saturday September 01, 2018 @12:57PM (#17892735)
The problem with starting from scratch for an Excel alternative is the classic quote : "Everyone needs 10% of the features Excel offers, but is a different 10%."
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @01:36PM (#17892953)
I don't disagree with you, however someone needs to take up the challenge. Perhaps by creating a base that can be plugged into more easily than LibreOffice or Excel would help encourage development by the community (much like atom and its plugins)

Basically, I'm not happy with the status quo that we have no real alternative to Excel on Linux.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by intended on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:36AM (#17896199)
There is no alternative to excel period.

Its like dwarf fortress or bloomberg terminals - when you are digging through what you thought was cruft, you'll suddenly find an entire project/application worth of material to handle a feature you never thought you would use.

Except that feature is used by someone else everyday.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by fooker on Saturday September 01, 2018 @10:41PM (#17895216)
That's a nice idea. Libreoffice is rather difficult to extend.
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by adrianN on Saturday September 01, 2018 @12:57PM (#17892742)
Well, if you fail at improving Libre Office to a state where you're satisfied with it, you still improved Libre Office. If you fail to write something better than Calc, all effort is lost.
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @01:33PM (#17892934)
I agree with what you're saying, but I'm not going to be pessimistic about the endeavour! I think, given time, we can build something that solves at least some use cases better than Calc.
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by grandinj on Saturday September 01, 2018 @01:49PM (#17893038)
Libreoffice hacker here. Calc is one of the nicer parts of the codebase. Don’t underestimate the enormous list of features that are required in a modern spreadsheet engine. We’re talking 100s of man-years of coding. Come join us and make it better. Or task one of the available consultancies to implement the features you want.
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:22PM (#17893227)
I know I am underestimating; I have a tendency to do that, so I appreciate the warning. May I ask how many people currently contribute to LibreOffice regularly?
Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by grandinj on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @08:09AM (#17967662)
There are about 20 people or so who contribute on a frequent basis i.e. at least weekly.

But we have a very long tail of people who contribute less often.

You can see the commit frequency here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/

Come hang out on the libreoffice-dev IRC channel if you have more questions

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by slededit on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:06PM (#17893134)
That is maybe doable if you don't care about importing existing files. You'll spend years just getting that right.

A grid of cells is the easy part. Compatibility is hard.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:17PM (#17893199)
Compatibility is actually the least of my worries. I think it's a losing battle that's not worth fighting.

Better to create an open ecosystem that people adopt for that very reason - that it is open. In the early days, Excel would actually obfuscate its output, making it extremely difficult to parse. Now things are a bit better, but you're still trying to hit a moving target.

If we have an open format, and a corresponding high-quality, open application ecosystem, I can see many corporates making the switch. Not easy, but I can see a future without total dependence on Excel.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by slededit on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:41PM (#17893313)
In the early days Excel focused heavily on compatibility with Lotus 1-2-3 which was dominant.

Excel never obfuscated their save code. I've seen it in person. They did just memcpy their data structures, which was the most efficient way to save on tiny machines of the day. Lotus did that too.

I've also seen and helped implement the Open Document spec. This is not a simple problem and you are doing yourself a disservice by blinding yourself to the scale of the task.

If you want to make an impact and don't have Google level budgets then leveraging OpenOffice is the only sane approach.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by osrec on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:50PM (#17893351)
I was under the impression they did attempt to obfuscate their files. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_POI

We don't have Google level budgets, but I think we can do something worthwhile with what we have. Might take a while, but I'm confident we will manage something good in the budget we are hoping to allocate to the task.

Re:$600 Chromebooks are a dangerous development for Microsoft by slededit on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:58PM (#17893386)
FUD goes both ways and the OpenDocument battle was particularly vicious on both sides.

However the code is literally a memcpy of a struct that is used internally. Not being designed for others to easily read isn't obfuscation. FWIW the XML formats designed for that purpose still fail horribly on that front.

Anyways I've worked on spreadsheets for 10 years. File compatibility is the hard part and the rest is easy by comparison (but still pretty hard).