Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by ColanR on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:22PM
(#17889606)
There's a big difference in user control between safety features and a self-driving car.
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Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by drngdds on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:34PM
(#17889638)
I mean, not really. You're already trusting software to decide how your car should steer (automatic lane keeping), brake (automatic emergency braking), and accelerate (adaptive cruise control).
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by dwighttk on Saturday September 01, 2018 @07:00AM
(#17891284)
Those are not in every car from the last 30 years.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by barbecue_sauce on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:40PM
(#17889663)
You're assuming people actually use those features.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by slimsag on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:00PM
(#17889720)
Is there anybody driving a car that does not use acceleration and braking? I could understand your argument for lane control, but otherwise your argument makes zero sense. Everyone's car is controlled by software, period.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by semi-extrinsic on Saturday September 01, 2018 @02:11AM
(#17890520)
Braking systems are controlled by a dedicated embedded software system that's extremely well-understood and well-tested (probably even formally verified). All it does is check the ABS (and anti-skid) sensors and moderate the braking pressure to avoid locking the wheels. It also has a fail-safe system that gets rigorously tested, e.g. if a sensor fails. All possible values of all inputs are known, and the configurational space of those inputs is small enough that you can exhaustively test correctness.
It's plainly obvious that a braking system controller software is a very different beast from an autonomous car software, and I have no problem understanding why someone would trust th former and not the latter.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by charleslmunger on Saturday September 01, 2018 @11:09AM
(#17892170)
> Braking systems are controlled by a dedicated embedded software system that's extremely well-understood and well-tested (probably even formally verified).
Are you sure? That code is closed source, and the peek behind the curtain we saw with Toyota's investigation did not inspire confidence:
http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintende...
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by semi-extrinsic on Saturday September 01, 2018 @12:21PM
(#17892529)
That's a really interesting article for sure. But it does highlight that Toyota was being unusual in not following industry-wide (voluntary) coding standards for safety-critical embedded systems in cars, and they ended up losing big in court. So I do think (hope) that this example is worst-case, not normal.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by sp00ls on Saturday September 01, 2018 @01:51AM
(#17890464)
The person you were replying to was talking about adaptive cruise control and automatic breaking. The majority of cars on the road do not have those features. Very different than plain acceleration and braking and much more likely to have glitches.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by gok on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:16PM
(#17889766)
I mean more like... brakes.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by saagarjha on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:49PM
(#17889868)
Which are also controlled by software. That’s literally what an ABS is.
Re:Apple self-driving car in accident: California DMV filing
by mandeepj on Saturday September 01, 2018 @01:33AM
(#17890418)
ABS saved me once from a big accident. I have heard\read about this feature before, but man practically seeing it, operating in front of your eyes - was just like beaming a torch through the darkness