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Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by DoreenMichele on Monday August 27, 2018 @02:56PM (#17853473)
I say this as someone with a bit more alimony than the $10k frequently cited as the expected figure for basic income who also has portable earned income who was willing to move to almost anywhere in the Western US to get back into housing.

Finding something under $550 almost anywhere I'm the US that isn't senior housing or a trailer is challenging. They exist, but it's not as readily available as many people seem to imagine. There are places for less than that, but if you expect some kind of decent housing on a budget, it's a tough thing to find.

I live without a car and that complicated things. A lot of places don't have walkable neighborhoods or good transit. If you need a car to get around, that substantially increases your real cost of living.

I get really tired of repeating myself on this topic. I also worry that I will get viewed as someone harping on it or with a political agenda for simply trying to rebut the endless statements about how poor people can just move someplace cheap.

I'm poor. I have portable income. I'm a former military wife who doesn't mind moving. And I found it incredibly challenging to find someplace to move that I could afford and where I could readily access basic essentials like groceries and good internet service without a car.

If "just move someplace cheap" was all it took, I would have shut up about my problems years ago and just sat around humming to myself about how slick I am and how all the other poor Americans are just dummies who are doing it wrong. It's really not that simple. Even if you have portable income, finding an affordable, livable place in the US is challenging.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by evgen on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:15PM (#17853629)
> I live without a car and that complicated things.

It complicates things quite significantly. In fact, if you were to remove this constraint then the problem becomes much more tractable. This factor alone limits you to urban locations because public transit alone is hard enough to find and absolutely nowhere in the US had decent public transit outside of an urban core except for a few cities that are already expensive to start with. There are not many of these places where you are not going to be competing with either university students, well-paid 20/30-somethings, or both.

To be honest I don't think any American city is going to provide this and until Americans get over their automobile fetish I don't think any place will even try to serve this requirement. It is quite normal in Europe, but only big, expensive cities work well for people without cars.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by ZainRiz on Monday August 27, 2018 @04:09PM (#17854066)
It's tough to be in your situation. Not being able to drive really does block you from moving into the cheaper rent areas.

I'm wondering if you've thought of how much having that portable income would have helped you if you were actually able to drive.

If 90% of people with portable income were able to drive would they be able to move to cheaper places successfully? If that were to happen then the 10% who couldn't drive would suddenly find less competition (and therefore lower costs) for renting places in the areas that actually had good public transit options.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by TheBeardKing on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:46PM (#17853887)
Western US is considerably more expensive than the southeast, but I can understand your desire to not live in the hell-hole which is the deep south.
Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by DoreenMichele on Monday August 27, 2018 @04:46PM (#17854388)
I have a ragweed allergy. The West Coast has substantially less ragweed than most of the continental US.

My medical bills are supposed to be thousands per month. I live on under $2000 per month most of the time. I am vastly more productive in dry areas with little ragweed and I need much less in the way of medical care.

This is part of why a lot of these one-sized-fits-all solutions for poor Americans are fundamentally bad ideas: They optimize for one metric only -- upfront cost -- and completely ignore large numbers of other issues.

The reality is that "cheap" solutions are often very expensive. Poverty is an expensive way to live.

If you look at the lifetime cost of a solution, the "cheap" answer is often the absolute most expensive in the long run.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by nekopa on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:13PM (#17853621)
Have you thought about leaving the US? I moved to the Czech Republic (US citizen) and you can live well here - without the car and lower income. Very good public transportation, it's safe, not a lot of violent crime, and the prices are quite reasonable. (For now - everything is going up in price, but I can still live quite comfortably)
Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by DoreenMichele on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:17PM (#17853641)
I considered moving to Mexico and did substantial research into that possibility before deciding against. I'm off the street. My firsthand testimony on the topic is absolutely not a solicitation for advice for me personally.

Saying poor Americans with portable income should just leave the country doesn't strike me as a real solution, for a long list of reasons.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by soared on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:01PM (#17853515)
I mean its absurd to think you could find what you're looking for. The US is very obviously not built for cars, so if you want to go against that you'll need to pay more. Or just find a place for $450 that isn't walkable, and pay $100/mo for a car.
Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by DoreenMichele on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:11PM (#17853595)
Nice theory, but I am no longer capable of driving.

As the American population ages, this is increasingly becoming an issue. If you need to drive to maintain your independence, you lose your independence when you can no longer safely drive, possibly because you simply don't see well enough anymore, even if you are otherwise competent.

My sucktastic eyesight is part of why I no longer drive.

Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by lutorm on Monday August 27, 2018 @03:43PM (#17853851)
Indeed, many people are, for one reason or another, unable to drive, especially elderly. My grandparents were, and soon my parents will be, facing this in Sweden. Even with its comparatively awesome public transportation (Sweden also has services that provide subsidized transportation to elderly so they can go to the grocery store, etc.), isolation is still an issue unless you live in an urban area. In the U.S. it has to be next to impossible.
Re:Y Combinator Learns Basic Income Is Not So Basic After All by DoreenMichele on Monday August 27, 2018 @04:17PM (#17854125)
Thank you.

One of the issues in the US is that small towns and rural areas often lack high speed internet. If we could spread high speed internet to small towns and rural areas, that would help. It would make it easier to shop online for things not supplied by local stores, keep yourself entertained, do some socializing via internet and even have an earned income as a remote worker if that's what you want.

This was one of the things I checked for before moving to a small town to get back into housing. Since I do earn money via remote work, I need reasonably high speed internet to make my life work. I can't function on dial-up speeds.

Many people casually suggesting poor people should move to cheaper parts of the US don't seem to realize that those places may not have high speed internet. Good internet access can go a long ways towards making life without a car work. If you have neither a car nor good internet, moving someplace cheap in the US can be a serious hardship that cuts you off from having much of a life at all.