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Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by reaperducer on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:10AM (#17840825)
Everything helps at this point. Because something helps less shouldn’t mean we bash it. Collectively we should do more.

While I don't disagree with your sentiment, the article makes an important point:

Plastic straws are 0.03% of the Great Garbage Patch problem.

Plastic fishing nets are 46% of the GGP problem.

The people pushing the plastic straw bans aren't raising awareness of the big problem (lost and abandoned fishing nets), they're just spreading the notion that plastic is evil.

It's a lazy, self-indulgent kind of activism that is about making the person feel better, not solving a problem.

You want to "raise awareness" of the real problem? Start putting up posters in the seafood departments of supermarkets showing a fishing net stuffed with 20 tons of rotting sea life that's still killing fish 15 years after it floated away from its boat.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by cwyers on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:32AM (#17840911)
I regret that I only have one upvote to give here. This is probably the most perfect, succinct statement of the problem.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by stinos on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:36AM (#17840932)
they're just spreading the notion that plastic is evil ... not solving a problem

Isn't there at least some possibility the former does help the bit with the problem? There's enough uninformed people out there. So while the straws itself aren't going to cut it, in general spreading awareness about plastic and waste in general might just get more people to be more careful.

Start putting up posters in the seafood departments of supermarkets showing a fishing net stuffed with 20 tons of rotting sea life that's still killing fish 15 years after it floated away from its boat

I'm not sure this would help more than other initiatives. Possibly, but still. In any case it is unfortunately quite non-realistic in this society.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by fauigerzigerk on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:02AM (#17841036)
>Isn't there at least some possibility the former does help the bit with the problem?

I don't think so. These things eventually become public knowledge and the result may well be cynicism, apathy or things like climate change denial.

It's important to be honest, rational and effective or the only way to change anything will be scaremongering and bigotry.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by tedunangst on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:39AM (#17841233)
The focus on straws would seem to reinforce the notion that the plastic we see is the problem, and the plastic we don't see isn't a problem, with the potential negative outcome that people declare mission accomplished after the straws are gone.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by brightball on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:18AM (#17840856)
What would a better net be made out of? Hemp maybe?
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by reaperducer on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:22AM (#17840872)
I don't know much about fishing nets, but cotton seems plentiful, is biodegradable, and there are plenty of poor cotton farmers in need of increased demand for their product.

If someone knows what fishing nets were made of before they were made of plastic, please chime in.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by ams6110 on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:45AM (#17840976)
They must have been made out of natural fibers originally, but I would imagine a big problem with that would be that they would absorb water and become very heavy.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by bluedino on Saturday August 25, 2018 @10:38AM (#17840944)
Cotton also absorbs water.

Most of the problem is that a billion pounds of fishing nets are left in the ocean every year, harming wildlife.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by KozmoNau7 on Saturday August 25, 2018 @03:26PM (#17842146)
Cotton requires a lot of water to grow and process.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by chewbacha on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:08AM (#17841071)
Hemp was the original material for fishing rope and nets :)
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by chewbacha on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:02AM (#17841039)
Sounds like the straw ban got you to do some research and raised your awareness.

Seems to be working.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by dnautics on Saturday August 25, 2018 @12:26PM (#17841420)
attention is a limited and rivalrous resource
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by chewbacha on Saturday August 25, 2018 @01:51PM (#17841757)
You want 24,000 metric tons of plastic straws to be in the Pacific Ocean then? Because even 0.03% of 8 million is still a lot of plastic straws.

Maybe we can dump them in your backyard then.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by drdeadringer on Saturday August 25, 2018 @03:21PM (#17842119)
Would you prefer the fishnets in your backyard?
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by intended on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:51AM (#17841280)
But that doesn’t work

The communication problem is not solved by being exacting. How many people can tell you exactly what’s going on with an algorithm - and how many people will stop their work to listen ?

On the other hand, put picture of kittens or unusual scenarios...

Mass communication isn’t only about accuracy.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by jstanley on Saturday August 25, 2018 @01:01PM (#17841555)
Algorithm development isn't only about correctness either, but correctness is usually a necessary condition.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by intended on Sunday August 26, 2018 @02:20AM (#17844562)
The point being that algo correctness is relevant you are writing code, and communication effectiveness is what you care about when you deal with mass communication.
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by fucking_tragedy on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:24AM (#17841159)
You're just looking at the garbage patch as if it represents the entirety of the problem.

Straws are the 7th most collected item during beach clean ups, after plastic bags and before plastic & foam containers.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by njarboe on Saturday August 25, 2018 @12:41PM (#17841475)
Interesting stat. Personal experience? Almost all plastic in the ocean comes from fishing vessels and dumping of garbage into rivers in Asia. It would be interesting to know where those straws come from.

All of this plastic discussion recently was due to China banning the importation of plastic from recycling systems in the West. People were made aware of how their plastic recycling was not really working out like they thought and actually was causing harm to other people. Banning plastic straws is like a little penance that we can do to get our psyches back in balance and close that small window that opened in our awareness onto the vast amount of consumption all of us do.

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by learc83 on Saturday August 25, 2018 @11:43AM (#17841250)
And what percentage of the total weight or total volume of garbage collected do straws represent?
Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by marcosdumay on Saturday August 25, 2018 @01:48PM (#17841733)
> Straws are the 7th most collected item during beach clean ups

So, not even on this count are they relevant?

Re:Plastic Straws Aren’t the Problem by fucking_tragedy on Saturday August 25, 2018 @06:44PM (#17842984)
You aren't even familiar with the statistic and you're willing to paint it as irrelevant?