Java Trap, 2010 Edition

Re:Java Trap, 2010 Edition by mbreese on Tuesday October 12, 2010 @12:43PM (#1783985)

For every new JSR, there has been a new Apache project which has been, if not the de-facto reference implementation, one of the major implementations (for better or worse). I just don't see this happening in the future. There will obviously be other organizations that will take up the slack, but I honestly don't see it working as well as with Apache.

I know all about the new-hotness that are Groovy, JRuby, Closure, Scala, KDK, Android etc... This isn't a Java-the-language discussion. This is a Java the platform/JVM discussion. Oracle's actions so far have been pretty chilling for the entire platform. You can't run any of the above without the JVM, and that is what Oracle is controlling.

Java will survive for a long time, and I don't think that anyone doubts that. But for the first time in a long time there is some doubt about whether or not it is a platform to build future products on.

In my mind, Apache is the canary in the coal mine. It might take a while, but they will lose their position of dominance over this.

Then again, it's been a ~15 years, isn't the industry ready to promote something else as the new major language? We've already seen Ruby and Python strengthen their positions.

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Re:Java Trap, 2010 Edition by bad_user on Tuesday October 12, 2010 @01:45PM (#1784211)

Sun always had a schizophrenic behavior in regards to open-source and the Java standard.

This is also one of those stories where the GPL (version 2) is acting in the interests of Oracle, not in the interest of the users; if only Sun released OpenJDK under Apache ... but why would they do that?

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Re:Java Trap, 2010 Edition by devmonk on Tuesday October 12, 2010 @01:37PM (#1784173)

Oracle can't and won't kill the platform.

They are certainly doing harm to Java, but Oracle hasn't sued IBM yet over this and there is quite a bit Oracle would go after if it were truly intent on killing the JVM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines

I don't think that anyone is questioning anyone looking into using other languages. I even suggested Ruby myself.

It might be a dark age for Oracle sponsoring Java Community Process development, but some of the JSRs have been crap. If development of new JSRs slows to a crawl, so be it. A wealth of Java, Ruby, Python, etc. projects have evolved without being attached to a bureaucratic standards committee.

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Re:Java Trap, 2010 Edition by bad_user on Tuesday October 12, 2010 @01:48PM (#1784224)

All proprietary Java implementations are licensed, with the deal made behind closed-doors, especially IBM's.

All open-source Java implementations available (minus OpenJDK) are not certified, and can be sued for patents infringements (or trademark violations if they're advertised as being Java implementations).

Oracle just showed they are not shy on using their property.

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Re:Java Trap, 2010 Edition by devmonk on Tuesday October 12, 2010 @03:39PM (#1784606)

From what I've understood, Sun didn't license everything to IBM (or for that matter, to others as you stated). Charles Nutter had a great post (and it has been updated) on the Oracle suit against Google where he talks about some of the wild claims that Oracle was making:

http://blog.headius.com/2010/08/my-thoughts-on-oracle-v-goog...

My point is that no rational company would attack its own base. Oracle had some wild claims. These will be toned down and they will come to an agreement. Things will move on.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't pay attention to Oracle's antics (even though I just consider Oracle a whining child at this point), but I think this whole thing is overblown.

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