News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by SheinhardtWigCo on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @04:27PM (#17761583)
Maybe they’re running out of money faster than anyone realizes and this is a desperate Hail Mary? That would explain the erratic and possibly illegal nature of the announcement.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by snowwrestler on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:33PM (#17762119)
I think a more likely explanation is Elon's ongoing annoyance and anger toward anyone who questions the eventual success of Tesla, and especially anyone shorting the stock.

There's no way he would ever admit this, but I bet one of his motivations for posting that tweet was to move the stock and hurt the shorts.

Musk seems to be one of those classic "force of nature" founders, whose will to overcome obstacles and prove everyone wrong is essential to getting off the ground, but could be a liability in a mature company.

"Oh, yeah? Try and stop me!" works great until you run up against someone who can actually stop you (often, the government).

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by joobus on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:52PM (#17762253)
He is only really annoyed with the shorts because there is truth in what they are saying. If he really was crushing it, and his company was raking in the money, he wouldn't care much about what the shorts are saying. As it is, his company is hemorrhaging cash and he doesn't know where the next cash infusion is going to come from.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by manicdee on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @07:59PM (#17762913)
On the flip side, he wants to build cars without having to play stupid financial games to satisfy investors each quarter. Tesla are going gangbusters, they will pay back debts and become a real company (ie: making profit) but the financial games where certain expenses are pushed or pulled between quarters to make the books look interesting get in the way of actually ramping up production.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by jacques_chester on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @08:49PM (#17763097)
Moving expenses from one to a quarter affects profit and loss, but it's a distinct thing from cash flow. The latter is the one that looks gloomy.

No matter how rosy your income statement, if you run out of cash, the GAME OVER screen comes up and people laugh at the glowing biographies folks wrote about you and your company in $PREVIOUS_DECADE. And while your accounts payable will often deal with being fobbed off for a bit, it becomes harder to do this. And certain folks expect cash, now, and can force you to cough it up: foremost being the government, but also employees (hard to do things when people quit en masse) and key suppliers (if the electricity goes off, or the parts don't arrive, you have to shut down the line).

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by shriver on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @09:47AM (#17765966)
Again though - these aren't things imposed by the markets. Time and again these impositions are imposed by Musk himself. He set the 5,000 car per week target, he missed it. The markets reacted when he set it, and they reacted every time he missed it. He also made the public statements about being cash flow positive and about taking on more debt.

If you look at the real market the trend is clear: There has never in the history of the stock market ever been a time when investors were more willing to invest in money-losing companies to gamble on them hitting it big. Tesla is valued by the stock market as twice as valuable as the Ford Motor Company.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by coatmatter on Monday August 20, 2018 @02:46PM (#17802650)
> On the flip side, he wants to build cars without having to play stupid financial games to satisfy investors each quarter.

It baffles me why he publicly listed Tesla in the first place if he didn't want to "play stupid financial games".

Ok so he wants to take it private - is funding secured or not?

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by kitsunesoba on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:47PM (#17762214)
This really is the core of the matter. Some founders are capable of largely ignoring the peanut gallery and don’t view external negativity as an existential threat. Musk is not among them.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by cmurf on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:43PM (#17762178)
>I bet one of his motivations for posting that tweet was to move the stock and hurt the shorts

Sounds like a violation of SEC rule 10b-5 and possibly illegal.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:59PM (#17762297)
> Sounds like a violation of SEC rule 10b-5 and possibly illegal.

Well, yeah, and there are already lawsuits charging that.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by snowwrestler on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @06:26PM (#17762461)
Only if you prove intent. Which is why Musk would never admit it.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by gamblor956 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @06:46PM (#17762565)
Intent is not required for regulatory violations. Moreover, the text of 10b-5 does not require any specific intent, only that the false statement or omission be made in connection with the transaction of a regulated security.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by snowwrestler on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @10:35PM (#17763392)
> John Reed Stark, a former longtime lawyer at the S.E.C. who specialized in investigating internet fraud cases, said that commenting online about the prospects of taking the company private was inadvisable at best. But he said that a case of market manipulation would come down to Mr. Musk’s intent.

> “These are very difficult cases to prove,” said Mr. Stark, who runs a cybersecurity consulting business.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/business/dealbook/tesla-e...

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by slededit on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @03:53AM (#17764367)
That is a seperate crime which he may also be guilty of.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by snowwrestler on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @11:09AM (#17766593)
Thanks.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by confiscate on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:52PM (#17762252)
it's funny how 3 months ago, all the news articles were saying Tesla has a 99% chance of going bankrupt

because, based on rational math, if you add this expense and minus that, the result is 0 in 3 months. QED

now that bankruptcy sounds unlikely, all the news articles are focusing on how a tweet could be illegal

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by gamblor956 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @06:05PM (#17762332)
Don't recall any articles from earlier this year saying that Tesla had a 99% chance of going bankrupt within 3 months, and I read almost all of them. You got any links?

(The money was on Tesla either blowing it out of the park, or going broke in 2019/2020.)

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by gamblor956 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @07:03PM (#17762662)
Just reread all 3 articles. The first and third don't have a timeline, but posit that it will occur after the Model 3 has begun sales, so 2019. Seeking Alpha says Tesla is on track for bankruptcy, and posits that it might be by the end of the year (i.e., 12 months from the date of the article) but is otherwise anticipated for 2019 based on the numerous cash flow models in the article (assuming no stock offering or new debt issuance).

In other words: 3 months ago no one was saying Tesla would be bankrupt by August/September.

And here's the thing: if Musk was truly honest about Tesla not seeking financing or offering new stock in 2018, they are on track for bankruptcy by the end of the year based on currently available investor documents re expense, cash flow, assets, etc.. If those documents are wrong, it's incumbent on Tesla to update them, not on the rest of us to assume voodoo financial magic will save the day.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by confiscate on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @12:01AM (#17763673)
Fine, all the it's bankrupt "in 2019/2020" vs "by September".

The point is, all the articles raising alarm bells saying Tesla is going bankrupt SOON, it will run out of funds, it will collapse. Because math.

Now, all the articles are focused on SEC rules for a tweet.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by CaptainZapp on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @05:57AM (#17764820)
There's no way he would ever admit this, but I bet one of his motivations for posting that tweet was to move the stock and hurt the shorts.

I would highly recommend not to admit this, because it's illegal as hell.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by cm2187 on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:51PM (#17762246)
That reminds me a lot Dick Fuld.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by aresant on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @04:38PM (#17761680)
Funding is likely a major concern but as others have pointed out on these threads Tesla could likely raise at least operating capital into foreseeable future without a major problem.

I think what this is a case of is further evidence that shareholder agreements should require corporate oversight of twitter accounts for CEOs :)

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by TAForObvReasons on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @05:29PM (#17762084)
> Tesla could likely raise at least operating capital into foreseeable future without a major problem.

Save for the fact that he explicitly insisted in conference calls and other places that Tesla doesn't need to raise money in 2018.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by nickik on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @07:42PM (#17762821)
You do understand that as a public company we have pretty close insight in how they are doing, specially because we can also count how many cars they actually sell.

You would have to be suggesting that the whole board of Tesla has totally lied about every aspect of the business (expert sales numbers) to hid some kind of desaster.

That seems incredibly unlikely.

Furthermore, we have always known that he wants to go private. He has been talking about it and mentioning it for years. He clearly has liked the SpaceX model better. Did he prepare this evil plan for the last 5 years?

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by rodgerd on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @04:39PM (#17761683)
Or, if you believe Azealia Banks, tweeting on acid.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by slededit on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @06:29PM (#17762473)
He seemed high to me in the SpaceX press conference after landing the boosters for the first time. He even joked about it at one point.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by jczhang on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @04:45PM (#17761731)
I just found out about this woman. She cray.
Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by threeseed on Tuesday August 14, 2018 @04:52PM (#17761790)
Elon Musk/Grime invited her to their house. And she's not crazy just attention seeking.

It surely has to bring into question Elon Musk's judgement to be involved with her.

Re:Elon Musk’s Funding for Tesla Wasn’t So Secure by jaimex2 on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @01:38AM (#17763967)
Except Musk was in Vegas at Defcon, he had nothing to do with her.