News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:USA Temperature: can I sucker you? by dragonwriter on Sunday August 12, 2018 @02:37PM (#17745721)
> Why such vitriol against "climate deniers?"

Climate deniers are either dishonest people spreading lies aimed at sacrificing the future of humanity for short-term personal gain or people following them in the destruction of humanity out of tribal allegiance.

There is literally no conceivable level of verbal vitriol that isn't far better than they deserve; the only reason for any restraint in that dimension is tactical, and even there excessive restraint i can be counterproductive; rational debate few of emotional charge may be a Vulcan ideal, but it is not, empirically, ideal in most broad human contexts. It's m it is important to be able to engage rationally in seeking the truth, but as long as that's not what everyone else does, it's going to remain less than ideal for spreadin the truth and mobilizing action based on it.

Re:USA Temperature: can I sucker you? by nkurz on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:42PM (#17746067)
Climate deniers are either dishonest people spreading lies aimed at sacrificing the future of humanity for short-term personal gain or people following them in the destruction of humanity out of tribal allegiance.

This seems a little extreme. Do you really think everyone labelled a denier is dishonest, in that they actually know the "truth" and instead are choosing for personal gain to spread "lies"? Is there really no room for "misguided", or even simply "wrong"?

Here's the autobiographical note for the originator of the graph that's being skewered: https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/who-is-steven-goddard/. He describes himself as a bicycle-riding lifelong-environmentalist who worked to get the clean air act passed. He says he never uses heat or air conditioning, and guesses that he has "the smallest electricity bill in Columbia, Maryland because I am very careful not to waste".

This isn't the self-narrative I'd expect for someone "aimed at sacrificing the future of humanity for short-term personal gain". Instead, he sounds like someone who genuinely believes there are flaws in the current version of climate science, and that a better approach is necessary to save (not sacrifice) humanity. What makes you so convinced he's dishonest, rather than a true believer with different beliefs?

Re:USA Temperature: can I sucker you? by dragonwriter on Sunday August 12, 2018 @08:31PM (#17747278)
> Do you really think everyone labelled a denier is dishonest

No, which is why the bit of my post you quote says “either dishonest ... or ...”

> This isn't the self-narrative I'd expect for someone "aimed at sacrificing the future of humanity for short-term personal gain".

It's very much a public self-narrative I'd expect from someone trying to sell a dishonest position on the issue; concern trolling is a concept with a name because it works, and propagandists know and leverage the fact that it works.

Re:USA Temperature: can I sucker you? by xg15 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @05:10PM (#17746425)
Ooh, I see. So he created a deliberately misleading graph by cherry-picking data and ignoring scientific best practices because he wants to help climate science. Now it makes sense.