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Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by int_19h on Friday August 03, 2018 @01:07AM (#17677414)
> Technological products are not gods or inevitable forces

Can you give one example of a technological development that was successfully suppressed in a sustainable way?

(Your example with nukes isn't it, because, while we reduce stockpiles, the nukes are still around, as is the know-how on how to make them.)

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by leg100 on Friday August 03, 2018 @05:00AM (#17678285)
You're thinking about it the wrong way.

For example, one 'technological product' I cannot abide by, and for which I routinely consider reaching our for a sledgehammer, is the automated supermarket check-out. Its intelligence and UX is abysmal. It's slow, unresponsive, pedantic, intolerant, and cannot rely on itself without continual help from a bored mind-numbed shop assistant.

What is missing is a technology that is fast, responsive, tolerant, intelligent and autonomous. You might ask well how would that be possible. That's the point. We or the people that build it, don't have the know-how or wherewithal to do so.

It is clear the technology we do have is not the best that we can possibly develop; and for many reasons, there is not an interest or desire to do so.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by themacguffinman on Friday August 03, 2018 @02:45PM (#17682461)
I'm not sure you're thinking about it the right way. The "inteligence and UX" of a technology isn't what makes it better, it's the overall efficiency. Automated supermarket checkout is winning because it costs much less resources while mostly achieving the same goal (the UX is bad enough to make people stop buying goods), making it more efficient. Just not more efficient for you specifically.
Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by leg100 on Saturday August 04, 2018 @03:35AM (#17685827)
I agree: it's better for the supermarket, it's not better for me.

Like the luddites, I really couldn't give a toss it costs much less resources for them while achieving the same crude goal.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by emiliobumachar on Friday August 03, 2018 @10:31AM (#17680141)
The treaty in place banning laser- based blinding weapons is working well so far.

Think laser pointer attached to an eye-seeking aimbot. Scary stuff.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by int_19h on Saturday August 04, 2018 @09:01PM (#17689164)
How do we know that it's actually working? It's easy to refrain from using such weapons in extremely one-sided conflicts. It's another matter if it's a major war between roughly matched powers; and we haven't seen that yet.

Still, though, the technology evidently exists (and we still make lasers that are plenty powerful to do this). The ban is on its use for this purpose, not the tech itself.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by Kalium on Friday August 03, 2018 @01:19AM (#17677462)
Moreover, the knowledge of how to make nukes keeps spreading, despite the best attempts of many powers to stop it.
Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by ajuc on Friday August 03, 2018 @04:51AM (#17678252)
Moreover one of the 3 countries that had nukes and voluntarly gave them up in exchange for security guarantees (Ukraine) was subsequently invaded by one of the 3 security guarantors (Russia), while the other 2 security guarantors (USA, UK) look the other way.

Ukraine had 3rd largest world nuclear arsenal before they gave them up.

It's hard not to conclude - never give up nukes if you have them.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by coldtea on Monday August 06, 2018 @05:47AM (#17696283)
>Ukraine had 3rd largest world nuclear arsenal before they gave them up.

Only because it was one part of the USSR though.

Besides, where were those people crying for Ukraine when the democratically elected government of the country was overthrown by the riots of a rag-tag coalition that included bona-fide neo-nazis (with swastikas et all)?

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by ajuc on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:24AM (#17696402)
> Only because it was one part of the USSR though.

What does it change?

> democratically elected government of the country was overthrown by the riots

After shooting at protesters and killing over 100 of them you lose all the legitimacy that comes from being democratically elected as far as I am concerned.

> included bona-fide neo-nazis

Among hundreds of thousands of people someone had nazi flags. It's OK to shoot at that crowd, obviously.

It's sad how Russians lost all hope of a modern, civilized and free country and accepted Putin autocracy. I pity you. Nothing will change there as long as Putin rules. Whole country stopped in time.

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by coldtea on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @05:12PM (#17710853)
>What does it change?

That is was perhaps Russia itself (the main entity in USSR) that designed, built, and put those weapons there.

>After shooting at protesters and killing over 100 of them you lose all the legitimacy that comes from being democratically elected as far as I am concerned.

So, if the Weimar Republic shot down the Nazis at Krystalnatch they'd lose their legitimacy?

Not to mention that this wasn't some "peaceful" conflict. 18 policemen where shot dead as well. If an armed revolt like that happened against the governments in many other places there would be much more than 1 to 5 ratio of police vs protesters deaths.

In the events of Mexico in 1968 for example, there were 300+ shot [1]. That government not only didn't lose its legitimacy, but enjoyed hosting the Olympics with all western nations participating. And those people were killed without such provocation (killing policemen) or toppling the government or anything, just for protesting. How's that for hypocrisy?

>Among hundreds of thousands of people someone had nazi flags.

"Someone"? 18 of the shot protestors (and thousands more in the protests) were members of neo-nazi parties and groups (e.g. Svodoba). Wikipedia: "Eighteen Svoboda members were killed in the Euromaidan protests and the 2014 Ukrainian revolution". They also got 3 ministers in the post-events government. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_massacre#Massacre [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)#2012...

Re:What the Luddites Really Fought Against (2011) by coldtea on Monday August 06, 2018 @05:46AM (#17696278)
>Can you give one example of a technological development that was successfully suppressed in a sustainable way?

Lisp and Smalltalk.