I don't have any problems with paying money for other people's benefit, but I do have a problem when I'm forced to do so. Would it be fair if I took money from you and gave it to someone else who needed it more? Why is it fair when the government does it?

Curious that I'm downvoted for coming out as one of the "many people hung up on how "unfair" it is". If you disagree with me you could at least answer my questions or try to change my mind.

I didn't vote you down - but I suspect the downvotes are because that is the often repeated "taxes are bad" argument. All I would offer to counter your argument is:

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization"

You're downvoted because so many people say it's "unfair" except for the 911 services they value, the fire department, roads, water, plowing in places with snow... It seems it's fair if it's services you use or fail to appreciate as services at all, and unfair if it doesn't serve you directly. And if you've thought in so little depth about the fairness and benefits of these services, the yield of an online discussion has a low expected value.

I believe the OP was talking about welfare services (taking from the productive and giving to the unproductive):

> food stamps or health insurance or whatever.

The services you listed benefit all members of society:

> the 911 services they value, the fire department, roads, water, plowing in places with snow

More downvotes. /shrug so much for discussing dissenting opinions.

My point is that it is unfair to the productive to take by force the product of their labor and give it to those who are unproductive.

If you doubt this and you have children, try an experiment. Children have a good sense of fairness (it's inborn). Take (without their consent) something they earned (and value) and donate it to Goodwill. Afterwards, when you tell them what you did, you can explain to them it's for the good of society if you want. See how they react.

Your argument hinges on the opinions of children? Children don't have fully developed brains.

My argument doesn't hinge on the opinion of children. It was just a thought experiment. My point was that children have an inborn sense of fairness and are less likely to have ideologies lodged in their head. So perhaps they would be a better judge of what is fair.

Ubiquitous healthcare access does benefit all of society. As does everyone being able to afford food.

How so? Sure, it benefits those who otherwise wouldn't have these things.

Also, sounds like a slippery slope to me. I suppose everyone having a cellphone benefits all of society as well?

Maybe because when we do that we pay a dollar for every cent of benefit delivered. The answer to a corrupt and inefficient system is not to shovel in more money. If we were getting $.050 on the dollar you'd see a lot more people willing to kick in.

The solution is to actually care about accountability, not to send less money.

Yes but the first is a prerequisite of the second. Reversing the order just makes the problem worse.