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Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by sykhic on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:02PM (#17648533)
I'm a public employee. I don't cause the government to write its contract with me to be the way it is. It's negotiated between my union and the state Department of Education. It is then voted on by the legislative branch and signed by the governor. It's a long process. At no point am I or my fellow workers the ones making the promises.

It costs money to run government. Employees need to be paid. We have had lay offs when budgets were constrained. The funding per pupil has steadily decreased the last 30 years and hence tuition has similarly increased. Our salaries relative to purchasing power has decreased over this time.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by dunpeal on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:17PM (#17648654)
> I don't cause the government to write its contract with me to be the way it is. It's negotiated between my union and the state Department of Education.

Exactly. So one group of state government employees (your state's DoE) meets another group of state government employees (your union) and decide to give each other an incredible defined-benefit pension deal that nobody outside of government can even dream of.

State government employees are giving each other dream pension plans, that are unsustainable and wildly over-budget even if they were well-managed (which generally they are not).

You know why nobody outside government has defined benefit pensions? Because they were proven to be unsustainable decades ago. Yet government employees keep conferring them upon themselves.

Then, when the inevitable deficit arises, as any economist would predict, you have a great solution: me and my peers in the private sectors should pay more taxes to bankroll your party!

I hope this slow-motion trainwreck would be a wakeup call, but either way, know this: there is no amount of taxes that will prop up your unsustainable pension plans. State and local governments wasted billions mismanaging these funds, that are unsustainable even under the best management.

Any more taxes you collect will just fuel this fire for a couple more years, before the inevitable next crisis arises.

You can't fix fiscal irresponsibility with more money, because all that money (and no accountability) is what created fiscal irresponsibility in the first place!

Your state government needs to start applying the same basic fiscal responsibility that every single business in your state is adhering to.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by sykhic on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:24PM (#17648704)
Pensions are not inherently unsustainable. They exist in the private sector in other countries and there are still some well funded private sector pensions in the U.S. They don't work well if they are not properly funded. Corporations got rid of pensions not because the concept is inherently unsustainable but because it's more profitable to do away with them.

My pension plan is not a good one. You characterization of one group of state employees giving a dream set of benefits to another is not based in reality. Administration does not negotiate strongly with us the contract won't be approved by the legislature or signed by the governor. Our wages relative to buying power has not been going up or remaining steady.

If pensions are inherently unsustainable then you must conclude that it is unsustainable for a society to care for itself.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by sheepmullet on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:50PM (#17648901)
> If pensions are inherently unsustainable then you must conclude that it is unsustainable for a society to care for itself.

How do you figure?

It is unsustainable for us to support all people over e.g. 60. But we can support the 5% over 60 who really need the support and can't look after themselves.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by sykhic on Monday July 30, 2018 @07:10PM (#17649030)
Supporting that 5% who really need it would effectively be a means tested pension system. The point of a pension (retirement savings) is to prevent masses of destitute elders. The goal is to have a society in which masses of elderly are not left without means to live at a reasonable standard. That’s the purpose of a pension system. If the goal can be effectively accomplished in another way then I support it. I’m not personally tied to the notion of a pension system.
Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by dunpeal on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:29PM (#17648746)
> Pensions are not inherently unsustainable.

Please read the link I posted above:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/10/demise-d...

Defined Cost pensions are sustainable. That's what we in the private sector have: 401k and Roth.

Defined Benefit pensions aren't sustainable. That's why nobody outside of government has them, and the ones sponsored by the government suffer huge deficits and are slowly but surely edging towards bankruptcy.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by sheepmullet on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:40PM (#17648820)
> me and my peers in the private sectors should pay more taxes to bankroll your party!

We are all to blame (if you are older than about 25).

Collectively, we have known the pensions are unsustainable for at least the last 40 years.

Yet we have refused to face the problem head on and vote in people who will fix it. Instead we push the problems onto the next generations.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by chrisdhoover on Monday July 30, 2018 @06:32PM (#17648767)
The teachers union is a powerful lobby in California. By paying dues to your union you are supporting their efforts to lobby for the unfunded pensions.

Teacher unions are also responsible for keeping bad teachers employeed. See NYC rubber rooms.

Re:The Pension Hole for U.S. Cities and States Is the Size o... by randysavage on Monday July 30, 2018 @08:41PM (#17649623)
Is there no level of personal responsibility involved? If the whole of my retirement was tied up in the promises of one entity... I have to imagine I'd be deeply concerned when my pension is underfunded. And underfunding is not new, there has been plenty of time to adjust on a personal level.