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Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by DeepYogurt on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:31PM (#17621919)
If all tech workers went out for lunch every day that would be a huge boon to the local low skill labor market.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:37PM (#17621960)
So over 20,000 employees would leave the Googleplex every day at noon to get lunch?

This just means the next massive campus complex will not open in Mountain View. Big profitable companies and their hordes of tax paying employees will go elsewhere, and definitely will not be supporting MTV's local businesses.

Welcome to the wonderful world of unintended consequences!

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by htmlfan on Thursday July 26, 2018 @08:31PM (#17622557)
As a Mountain View resident who has to drive on Shoreline, please no! This would be disastrous. It's already a mess at 9 a.m. every day thanks to Google. I have to leave to get to work super early just to get on the freeway before the Google traffic makes me drive a 1 mile stretch in 1/2 hour.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by cbhl on Thursday July 26, 2018 @08:48PM (#17622632)
Presumbly there would be restaurants in Shoreline in this scenario, and Google employees would walk to the restaurant to spend their money, just like in downtowns across the world. Or they'd bring lunch from home.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by PretzelFisch on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:35PM (#17622305)
Is there anything stopping the next campus from opening a restaurant and not charging their employees?
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by kamaal on Friday July 27, 2018 @02:23AM (#17623881)
Some thing exactly like that will happen.

"We don't serve free food to our employee, we charge $0.000001 per meal".

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:49PM (#17622871)
They'll have to provide access to the public, i.e. allow anyone to walk into their campus and have a meal there.

Plus it can't be the exact same entity, so they'll have to "partner" with some vendor to create and operate the restaurant.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by Johnny555 on Thursday July 26, 2018 @08:35PM (#17622569)
Isn't a company restaurant that doesn't charge employees the same thing as a company cafeteria?
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by megy on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:00PM (#17622113)
No, maybe they would come to the Googleplex. A huge boon in food trucks.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:16PM (#17622214)
The Googleplex has over 20,000 employees, and food trucks are among the least efficient ways to feed them. You'd have huge convoys of food trucks entering and leaving the Googleplex for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Access control is vital in a location like a tech company's headquarters. With hundreds of random food trucks coming and going every day, such control will become impossible.

Finally, food trucks are notorious for cutting corners when it comes to food quality, especially any health concerns. I would now want myself or my employees eating from food trucks all day, every day.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by nostrademons on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:39PM (#17622333)
The Village at San Antonio is not North Bayshore. This wouldn't work at Google's current campus because there are literally not enough restaurants to feed everyone - there were 4 when I worked there (Sports Page + the Sunnybowl/Falafel/Sushi complex), and since then Sports Page has closed and there are apparently a few new ones by the Computer History Museum. Perhaps the new zoning plans for North Bayshore include more, but it'll be years before that's done.

But when The Village was zoned, it was explicitly done with street-level retail for a wide variety of restaurants. There are over a dozen restaurants within a 5-minute walk of Facebook's offices, plus a Walmart, Safeway, Whole Foods, and produce market, all of which have ready-to-eat meals.

Something that's left out of a lot of the news coverage of this: it's not a law but a development condition attached to the particular property that Facebook is occupying. When a real-estate developer wants to develop a piece of property, there's a complex negotiation with the local municipality (or county, if it's in unincorporated land) that includes things like contracting for water/sewer/garbage services, how to ensure there's adequate police & fire coverage, how the town will build new roads to handle traffic generated from the property, what's the impact on schools & community services, and what types of dwellings & permitted uses are available for the property (you can't build a skyscraper in the path of SJC airport, for example, nor can you build a chip fab on residential land). Written into that contract is the cafeteria clause under discussion here. While I have some doubts about whether this is a good thing (I've got another comment here where I expressed mixed feelings), it's a contract and not a law, and obviously Facebook has felt that the restriction is not too onerous for the building to be worth occupying.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by jessaustin on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:57PM (#17622917)
...Facebook has felt that the restriction is not too onerous for the building to be worth occupying.

Perhaps originally they thought they could inspire enough of a public outcry like that seen in this thread to get the rules relaxed eventually... with their recent PR troubles that probably won't happen.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by nostrademons on Thursday July 26, 2018 @11:59PM (#17623335)
I'd bet that it's honestly not that important to them. They'll probably forego the cafeteria and just let their highly-paid employees buy lunch the way 99% of the population does. It won't be a popular building to work at, but if you work at Facebook, are you really gonna quit because you work at an office without a cafe? You've probably got bigger things on your mind, like the 20% drop in the stock price that happened today.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:51PM (#17622883)
This is an informative comment, thanks.

It does make more sense for a development like the Village, but I'm still concerned about the encroaching and escalating intrusion of local lawmakers in a benefit employers wish to provide their employees.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by shub on Friday July 27, 2018 @12:40AM (#17623491)
On the other hand, I live far away and the YouTubes would be entertaining. Please do this, Google.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by fooker on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:17PM (#17622217)
Umm that already happens.

It is just that they are paid by Google instead of individual employees.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by deathanatos on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:02PM (#17622127)
I skip breakfast, because the commute is so terrible that by the time I get to the office, it is too late, and I am unwilling to wake up any earlier in the morning for it. (Though, if I really did force myself to have breakfast, I would be waking up for it, not eating out.)

As for lunch, my company only provides it once per week. On the one day we do provide it, it is catered, and thus requires local labor. On the other days, I go out to get it. My favorite sandwich shop just closed; my coworker's favorite Korean place closed with them. If I had to guess, I would suspect they simply couldn't sustain themselves with the rents as they are. Their prices were decent. Other nearby eateries with more of a, for want of a better word, hipster feel to them charge significantly more for less food; I avoid eating there because over the course of the entire year, it represents a non-trivial amount of money. But if it comes to it that they're the only ones that can survive, I'll probably just abandon eating out altogether.

As it is, I'm making plans to abandon SV altogether primarily due to the issues mentioned by your parent: the ever declining quality of life in the Bay Area. Will that be a boon to the local market?

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by Vordax on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:33PM (#17621928)
What about all the employees that work in the cafeterias at Facebook?
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by tidon12 on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:36PM (#17621953)
This is the real point. The idea that somehow the catering business serving startups or the kitchen workers in cafes are somehow less worthy of support than owners of restaurants
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:39PM (#17621972)
To be fair, there are a lot of efficiency gains and economies of scale involved.

Google pays a lot less to provide an employee with a nutritious, healthy meal than the same employee would be paying for a less healthy meal in your typical local restaurant.

So this law will create more local jobs in the short term... except the next Techplex will not be built in MTV, which will lose it far more local jobs than it gained.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by repsilat on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:02PM (#17622125)
No, this is not the real point. Employment isn't an upside, that's the broken window fallacy.

Employees should be allowed to bring food from home to eat at their desks if they want, and that is obviously terrible for jobs in local cafes and restaurants.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by rtkwe on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:46PM (#17622019)
Restaurants do have some added benefits over just a catering business though and those are mentioned in the article. Restaurants bring foot traffic to areas that other shops can benefit from where a catering business doesn't.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by briandear on Friday July 27, 2018 @02:23AM (#17623879)
Those employees don’t contribute to the campaigns of the relevant politicians while local business owners are highly involved.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by danjoc on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:58PM (#17622104)
Suddenly everyone cares about their dear Facebook cafeteria workers?

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Facebook-cafeteria-worke...

People cheating on their income taxes to the tune of thousands of dollars a year each in free lunches are now more likely to comply with the law. This seems like a step in the right direction.

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by Bramble on Thursday July 26, 2018 @08:26PM (#17622543)
It's a shame that bay area housing prices, which higher paid tech workers already struggle with, are even more of a burden for Facebook cafeteria workers, who make less money than many of those they serve every day. Thankfully, since your year-old article, Facebook cafeteria workers have unionized. I hope it's helped.

Still, it's unlikely that food service and retail workers in these cities are having an easier time making ends meet. The article you linked acknowledged that the cafeteria workers were making well above CA minimum wage - do you think the same can be said for all the restaurant/shop employees in the bay? Is there a reason we should be more concerned about some service industry employees over others?

Do you have a source for your claim that people are cheating on their income taxes to the tune of thousands of dollars a year?

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by dunpeal on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:55PM (#17622908)
> Still, it's unlikely that food service and retail workers in these cities are having an easier time making ends meet. The article you linked acknowledged that the cafeteria workers were making well above CA minimum wage - do you think the same can be said for all the restaurant/shop employees in the bay?

Hit the nail on the head.

All this concern for a relatively tiny number of tech cafeteria workers who are actually in much better shape than the vast majority of food industry employees. McDonalds pays the absolute minimum to its legions employees, and has to give them booklets that try (and fail) to do the math of how they can survive on their meager income. Meanwhile, bit tech pays their workers much better, but let's pick on them since they're evil!

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by pascalxus on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:05PM (#17622146)
are you kidding me? There's already enormous demand for unskilled labor. Every single cafe and restaurant i encounter here in the bay area has positions open in the kitchen, dishwasher and waiters. One restaurant had 9+ positions open!
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by deadmetheny on Friday July 27, 2018 @11:36AM (#17626736)
And getting one of those jobs means fuck-all when tech workers have you priced out of living withing any sort of reasonable commute to your low-wage service industry job.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by banachtarski on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:34PM (#17621935)
Not everyone who works at a tech company is an engineer. In fact, engineers probably do not even constitute the majority of the workforce for many large bay area "tech" companies.
Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by tmh79 on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:08PM (#17622166)
how are the existing cafeterias in mountain view not part of the "local low skill labor market"

they pay well, better than restaurants, and they have better hours and benefits

Re:Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech co... by mrep on Friday July 27, 2018 @10:17AM (#17626116)
Except not everyone would. I ate out like once a month at my old company that didn't provide food and now eat breakfast and lunch everyday at my new office that does. If free food is banned, a lot of people will be like me would prepare their own food decreasing the overall demand for workers to make food.