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Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by justinjlynn on Monday July 23, 2018 @03:46AM (#17591159)
No, the ends don't justify the means. History is replete with people who have grand vision -- domination, the elimination of undesirables, universal peace and love through enforced belief. We're fortunate then that Jobs's vision happened to be limited to "elegant" consumer electronics.

His reportedly preferred means of achieving it: legendary abuse, ever changing requirements, pop "explain your job in the lift or you're fired" quizzes and removal of choice for consumers (when it suited his tastes) is simply repugnant. Who knows how many engineer's sanity, awesome hacks or creative careers his vision quest cost?

I am not downplaying his accomplishments -- I'm saying that giving Jobs credit for what Apple accomplished is like giving credit to dust in the air for a rainstorm and acting as though that's the only way a rainstorm could happen.

The iPhone happened because thousands of engineers threw themselves into a machine and ground themselves into a fine mist in order to produce it to Jobs's deadline and ever changing liking. We almost certainly would've had it or something like it -- with or without Jobs and his imminently destructive vision.

Jobs didn't invent the iPhone from whole cloth, fully formed. He didn't magick up a whole new product category or new approach. At best, he (or more likely his market research team) extrapolated market demand. Palm and other feature phone manufacturers had been trending towards what the iPhone would become for years.

Apple simply happened to be first to market and arrived with a barely passable product. The real innovation, the app store, was not a launch item. If I recall correctly, the web browser was supposed to be the future and was the only way for third-party "applications" to run on the device at launch. There is zero reason to think that vision was singular or complete.

Jobs is not and never was a role model. He succeeded in spite of his flaws, not because of them -- or because of some ineffable genius.

Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by scruffyherder on Monday July 23, 2018 @08:18AM (#17592171)
Who do you think persuaded AT&T? It sure wasn't thousands of engineers.

I suspect you have never even seen a Microsoft CE phone.

Who do you think negotiated with the record labels? Hollywood?

Hate to say it but engineers that aren't pointed to a goal and kept on task are worse than useless.

Go ask anyone about Nokia, RIM and even the once mighty IBM and Microsoft how good is lots of engineers if they are blind and directionless.

Jobs set out to change the world, and did for a while.

Now professional users are shunned with 5+ year old machines at full retail.

Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by justinjlynn on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:04PM (#17596398)
That much is true, Jobs was good at getting people in a room and "smooth talking" (to read manipulating) them until he got what he wanted.
Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by scarface74 on Monday July 23, 2018 @09:14AM (#17592477)
Who was going to come out with an iPhone like device?

Microsoft - they were invested in making a Windows based phone.

Google - the first concept of Android was a BlackBerry like device.

RIM - RIM was poo pooing the idea of a touch screen phone two or three years after the iPhone was out.

The App Store wasn't really that much of an innovation. The carriers had app stores selling downloadable J2ME apps before the iPhone came out. I was on Sprint back then.

Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by makapuf on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:02AM (#17591847)
Nokia and telcos had a java app store before iPhone even started, so no he didn't invent those.
Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by mattl on Monday July 23, 2018 @12:34PM (#17593836)
NeXTSTEP had digital distribution via Electronic AppWrapper in the early 90s.
Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by makapuf on Monday July 23, 2018 @06:13PM (#17596456)
Was that a store or a package manager ?
Re:What was it like to be a software engineer at NeXT? by mattl on Monday July 23, 2018 @07:19PM (#17596846)
A store.