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Re:Autopsy of a deep learning paper by mlthoughts2018 on Saturday July 21, 2018 @10:04AM (#17582010)
I think there is room for criticizing a lot of the hype around deep learning papers, especially the semi-blog / semi-research stuff you often see in tech company blogs, fastai, etc.

But this criticism falls a little flat to me. For instance,

> “Nevertheless the central point of a scientific paper is a relatively concisely expressible idea of some nontrivial universality (and predictive power) or some nontrivial observation about the nature of reality”

That’s an insanely high bar for published work. I also read lots of research papers, and I think only a handful per year would meet these requirements. Yet many others are extremely valuable to show negative or partial results, results with small effect sizes, and other things.

We absolutely should not disparage someone for publishing results of a failed or ineffectual approach. Because otherwise we’ll just make things like file drawer bias and p-hacking far worse, and create an even worse cultural expectation that to make a career in science, you must constantly publish positive results with big, sexy implications — which is what leads to the whole disastrous hype-driven state of affairs, like in deep learning right now, in the first place, and ludicrous science journalism, funding battles fought over demoware and vaporware, academics fleeing into corporate sponsorship like yesterday’s article about Facebook, etc.

Re:Autopsy of a deep learning paper by felippee on Saturday July 21, 2018 @10:28PM (#17584973)
Author of the post here. I totally agree that negative stuff should be published. But without the fanfares. I think they could have changed the tone of that paper and I would not have an issue with it. It is likely that if they did that they'd never go through some idiot reviewer who expects "a positive result" or some similar silliness. This is not a perfect world. The paper as is makes strong claims about the novelty and usefulness of their gimmick. If it turns out your stuff is at least partially hollow and you take on the pompous tone, you have to be ready to take some heat. Science is not about tapping friends on the back (which BTW is what is happening a lot with the so called "deep learning community"). Science is about fighting to get to some truth, even if that takes some heat. People so fragile that they cannot take criticism should just not do it.
Re:Autopsy of a deep learning paper by mlthoughts2018 on Sunday July 22, 2018 @11:07AM (#17587106)
I completely agree regarding fanfare in deep learning. There are lots of “incremental improvement” papers, GitHub repos, blog posts, etc. and these are totally fine in principle — but they are without a doubt branded as “state of the art” often with messy or incomplete code and little capability to reproduce results.

An additional frustration point I always have is when network architectures are not even fully specified.

Try reading the MTCNN fave detection paper. How, exactly, is the input image pyramid calculated? By what mechanism, exactly, can the network cascade produce multiple detections (i.e. can it only produce one detection per each input scale? If more than one, how?). In the Inception paper dealing with factorized convolutions, just google around to see the deep, deep confusion over the exact mechanics by which the two-stage, smaller convolutions ends up saving operations ovrr a one-stage larger convolution. The highest upvoted answers on Stack Overflow, reddit, quora are often wrong.

And these examples are from reasonably interesting mainstream papers that deserve some fanfare. Just imagine how much worse it is for extremely incremental engineering papers trying to milk the hype by claiming state of the art performance.

Still though, at the end of the day, I’d rather that more papers are published and negative / incremental results are not penalized, because the alternative file drawer bias would be much worse for science overall.

Re:Autopsy of a deep learning paper by UncleEntity on Saturday July 21, 2018 @06:38PM (#17584215)
> Yet many others are extremely valuable to show negative or partial results, results with small effect sizes, and other things.

(the evil?) Elsevier has a similar opinion => https://www.elsevier.com/connect/scientists-we-want-your-neg...