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Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by fhood on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:10PM (#17577948)
If these shoes really can provide a measurable improvement in times they probably should be banned. Otherwise it will go the way of swimming, where a bunch of world records got set before they ended up banning those full body suits.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by einarfd on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:17PM (#17578560)
As a runner I want shoes to get more efficient and better. What is about todays running shoe that makes them acceptable, and that anything better is some form of cheating? I don't agree with what they did in swimming, those body suits where amazing, and that they got banned was really sad. But even if you agree with banning them. Shoes in running are a not comparable to full body swimming suits. Shoes are an central part of running, the swimming suit is not that in swimming. If you ban improvement on something so core to running as the shoes, what is left to innovate on?
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by jartelt on Friday July 20, 2018 @06:14PM (#17579422)
Because the sport is better for everyone if you aren't required to buy $250 shoes to have a chance to win. It's the same with the swim suits. If a new piece of equipment comes out that makes you 5% more efficient, then anyone who wants a chance to actually compete needs to buy it. It's just like a tax on competitors.

Otherwise running and swimming would just turn into cycling where you are basically forced to buy an expensive bike to compete.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by jonknee on Friday July 20, 2018 @10:40PM (#17580438)
No one other than a small group of elite athletes is ever expected to win a marathon, it's mainly a race against yourself.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by AtlasBarfed on Sunday July 22, 2018 @12:11PM (#17587413)
Not when it comes to boston qualifying, or running scholarships.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by smileysteve on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:28PM (#17578653)
> Shoes are an central part of running, the swimming suit is not that in swimming

A Speedo vs a Short is a very big difference in swimming. Shaving body hair is a thing males at the high school level are doing.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by einarfd on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:44PM (#17578749)
I wasn't arguing that there isn't significant drag in water, and to be able to win swimming competitions you need to care about that to. But I have a hard time accepting that swimming shorts, is to swimming as shoes are to running.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by bigpicture on Friday July 20, 2018 @05:14PM (#17578995)
> But I have a hard time accepting that swimming shorts, is to swimming as shoes are to running.

Oh, it's huge. These new "tech" suits are big and you now see them in competitions for young kids. Some states have banned them for the under-10 groups, other have not.

These things are so ridiculous. They can cost hundreds of dollars, they take 5-10 minutes just to put on, and they wear out after wearing them 10-15 times.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday July 20, 2018 @11:32PM (#17580559)
What's the whole point of sports competition in the first place if the thing that makes the difference is a simple layout of $250?
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by jnotwell on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:47PM (#17578779)
Track spikes for shorter events have included a rigid plate - sometimes made of carbon fiber - for as long as I can remember.

The Vaporfly 4% could simply be viewed as a technology transfer to shoes intended for longer distances.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by gwbas1c on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:40PM (#17578240)
Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore.

If this kind of thing is important, the best approach is to narrowly define what athletes can wear. (Shoes, socks, compression sleeves, clothes, ect.)

Then, working within the limits is part of the sport itself.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by justinsaccount on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:08PM (#17578491)
> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention.

This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them.

> You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore.

why not?

> Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record.

He finished in 2:15:16.2

Or take Roger Bannister: [1]

> Sir Roger clocked three minutes 59.4 seconds in the historic race at Iffley Road Track in Oxford on 6 May 1954 when he was a 25-year-old medical student.

> The thin leather running spikes which weigh just four and a half ounces were snapped up by an anonymous buyer at the auction in South Kensington, London.

I don't know about you, but I can't run a 2:15 marathon or a 4 minute mile, and I don't think fancy shoes would make the difference.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/11/roger-bannis...

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by jdietrich on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:18PM (#17578568)
>why not?

We didn't evolve to run on tarmac or concrete. Public roads are strewn with broken glass and fragments of metal. Regular distance running is punishing on your joints, even if you're a forefoot runner with perfect form.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by pg314 on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:52PM (#17578818)
> Regular distance running is punishing on your joints, even if you're a forefoot runner with perfect form.

The studies I'm aware of (e.g. [1]) point in the opposite direction: runners have a lower risk of osteoarthritis, potentially because they have a lower BMI. As an avid long distance runner myself, if you have any evidence to the contrary, I'd be very interested to read it.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23377837

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by sethammons on Friday July 20, 2018 @07:32PM (#17579837)
I did not see the original source, but this secondary source shows that running is the second most injurious sport, right behind football.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3724624/How-running-...

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by tylerhou on Friday July 20, 2018 @09:11PM (#17580202)
I would be skeptical about any claim supported by a Daily Mail link. I couldn't find any references to the study they "cited" on Google Scholar, either.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by dpark on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:45PM (#17578757)
Okay, but we did evolve to run on dirt and rock, neither of which are particularly soft. Equally important, studies indicate that impact does not decrease when running on softer surfaces. Runner instinctively step harder on soft surfaces and more softer on hard surfaces, to get the same feedback from their feet and legs.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by js2 on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:35PM (#17578688)
FWIW, four years later he won the Tokyo Olympics marathon wearing Pumas in a new world-record time of 2:12:11.2.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by BanazirGalbasi on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:47PM (#17578776)
Which just goes to prove the point that it's the person, not the equipment, that determines performance at that level.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by 21 on Friday July 20, 2018 @05:48PM (#17579252)
How do you know that. How do you know the improvement was not because now he was using shoes.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by jcdavis on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:52PM (#17578812)
> I don't know about you, but I can't run a 2:15 marathon or a 4 minute mile, and I don't think fancy shoes would make the difference.

But for those that can, fancy shoes make a massive difference.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by tomazio on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:51PM (#17578806)
When you get to the highest levels of competition in any event, it's almost exclusively the little things that make the biggest difference. This is because the greatest athletes/competitors will have mastered most everything else surrounding their sport/event and the only differences that remain between them lay in the minute details.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by posting2fast on Friday July 20, 2018 @06:02PM (#17579347)
Let's say at that level who wins any given race depends mostly on how good indiviuals feel on the day of competition, not some "edge" that can be kept improving on, because they all did all of their homework.

Would that be so bad? I imagine if I had trained so hard for so long, and overcome so much, I would rather accept that I'm in a group of people who "are all so good it's impossible to tell who is the best", than have it decided by who has the bigger R&D department.

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by hiccuphippo on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:41PM (#17578732)
It seems very a very different perspective from other sports like Formula1. Nobody would bat an eye if someone created a better engine to win F1 races.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by al_chemist on Friday July 20, 2018 @04:52PM (#17578815)
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by zone411 on Friday July 20, 2018 @05:19PM (#17579025)
Current engine specifications in Formula 1 are quite strict. If these rules didn't exist, it would be easy for the teams to create more powerful engines than the current 1.6L turbo V6s.
Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by reaperducer on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:21PM (#17578056)
Running on shoes with a carbon fiber plate should be banned, but running on carbon fiber blades† is OK?

It wouldn't be the first time the Olympic Committee has been confusing.

† https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius

Re:Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much F... by llimllib on Friday July 20, 2018 @03:27PM (#17578113)