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Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by mschuster91 on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:17PM (#17576337)
This problem will also bite the US launch industry. Hard.

Once SpaceX has proven they can do safe crewed flights and Blue Origin goes beyond testing flights, why is there a reason to pay the huge ULA markup any more?

ULA, as well as Airbus, has a problem: they're constantly being meddled with by politicians without any idea what they're doing and decide stuff that's totally unreasonable from an economical point but helpful for their (or their party's) reelections. Airbus employs 130k people, Boeing 140k and Lockheed 100k, and in addition there are a lot of people in the supplier companies. That's a lot of voters, and the companies are often enough big employers on a regional/local level.

Which means: SpaceX and Blue Origin will conquer the entire commercial sector plus an enormous amount of US government work. EU-founded projects will (politically mandated) stick to Airbus, but the political inability of Airbus to innovate will lead everything else go to SpaceX/BO. And the taxpayer will have to "save" them... or have to deal with hundreds of thousands people out of jobs.

Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by JumpCrisscross on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:33PM (#17576495)
> This problem will also bite the US launch industry

I don't think so. ULA was formed in 2006 [1]. Before that, the U.S. launch market was competitive within itself and with the Russians. The Falcon 9 first flew in 2015 (EDIT: "first flew commercially in 2013") [2], returning the American market to a competitive state. American aerospace engineers are used to working in a competitive culture. If ULA doesn't become competitive, either itself or by splitting, there are plenty of launch start-ups beyond SpaceX and Blue Origin hiring away that talent.

In contrast, the European market has no similar tradition of competition in launch services. The reaction to SpaceX isn't to consider a novel platform. It's to plod on with the old and raise the gates around European launch buyers.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9

Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by greglindahl on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:42PM (#17576601)
Falcon 9 first flew in 2010, and launched its first commercial payload in 2013.
Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by no1youknowz on Friday July 20, 2018 @12:59PM (#17576765)
> ULA, as well as Airbus, has a problem

Yep, exactly the same problem as IBM, Blackberry, and many other companies who were at the top and then either stopped innovating or got to big and slow.

Having the bigger companies fail in a respect is a good thing. Have those engineers go back into the free market. Have them create companies and make competition. Push technologies forward and pricing down.

Look at Rocket Lab and their Electron rocket. Pretty amazing if you ask me and didn't really cost that much.

Let the free market sort things out. It always does. Unless of course you start involving the government with their jobs program and you get an SLS rocket that costs $2b each and isn't reusable.

What we need are many more companies providing launch services. Lets get the cost down to $1k to send someone up. Lets get more companies building infrastructure in space, so we have 10, 20 or 50 space stations in LEO.

There's so much up for grabs, but it won't be available if we start protectionist policies.

Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by pocketstar on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:01PM (#17576783)
ULA has 100% mission success. The Atlas family has 100% mission sucess since 1957. The ULA markup is justified for a high value mission. BO and spaceX have big shoes to fill when it comea to building industry and insurer trust. The Amos 8 failure was an expensive lesson for spacex.
Re:As the SpaceX steamroller surges, European rocket industr... by rory096 on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:28PM (#17577056)
>The Atlas family has 100% mission sucess since 1957.

Huh? Atlas I had failures in 1991, 1992, and 1993. Atlas G failed in 1984 and 1987.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_G

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/logsum.html