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Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by johnm1019 on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:28PM (#17545313)
The article lists these as calibration sources. That means they are minuscule.

Bad that hit happened, yes. Worth the headline and attention in the article? Nah.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by Animats on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:01PM (#17545538)
Yes. If you want a cesium calibration source, you can order one online from United Nuclear.[1] Costs $145, plus $15 shipping. Anyone can order. "If you're ordering hazardous items, don't forget to sign the disclaimer on the bottom of the order form!"

Plutonium alpha sources are available from Eckert and Ziegler, and can be ordered in the US from Direct Scientific.[2] Call for pricing. They're a disk with some plutonium electroplated onto platinum on stainless steel. There's no window, because this is an alpha emitter and the particles would not get through.

As hazardous objects, these rank well below a steak knife.

[1] https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&c... [2] https://www.drct.com/dss/sources/alpha.htm

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by obmelvin on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:36PM (#17545372)
This particular case isn't terrible, but it illustrates the general attitude towards material security that could be seriously bad. With materials like this I don't think there is an acceptable threshold under which we can say 'no big deal' if lost.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by whyGaard on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:30PM (#17545322)
What are the chances someone knew the plutonium was being transported in that particular vehicle?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by acomjean on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:42PM (#17545412)
I used to have to move around a radioactive instrument for work[1]. It was in a big orange box with nuclear stickers all over it. Not very subtle.

Though I remember having to get a permit from the nuclear regulatory commission to transfer it off site. It always had to be locked up or under your control. It didn't have much radioactive material, but some.

It radiated enough that when someone stored their radiation badge in the box, they were very very worried about him when the badge was read..

[1] http://www.troxlerlabs.com/Products/Catalog/catid/1

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by kev009 on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:55PM (#17545501)
As a kind of thought experiment I wonder how being the new "owner" of this would be anything other than a terrible curse. It's not really useful in any way to most people so you probably decide to hawk it. You have the full might of the DoE and other government agencies monitoring for it. Let's say you somehow establish contact with a weapons dealer or foreign government agent. They are just as likely to whack you and take it to clean up the trail as any other outcome. There's basically no way to win, and no zero sum in this game.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by vandahm on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:52PM (#17545864)
In Brazil, in the 1980s, a couple of burglars broke into an abandoned hospital and stole a supply of cesium chloride from a radiotherapy machine. The difference between your scenario and this one is that the thieves didn't know what it was -- it just looked important and expensive. The whole thing was a huge screw-up, and a number of people -- including one of the burglars -- died from exposure to radiation before the authorities sorted it all out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by tonyarkles on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:02PM (#17546213)
I thought of that story right away and, man, there’s a lot of heartbreaking elements to it. Also incompetence all around. Who thinks leaving something with that much potential for harm in an abandoned building?!

Edit: ...is a good idea?!

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by ryanmercer on Monday July 16, 2018 @04:19PM (#17544730)
...

Why is plutonium being transported in a rented car...

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by DoubleCribble on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:08PM (#17545151)
Because the government will reimburse for the full cost of a rental vs just 53.5 cents per mile (circa 2017 GSA policy) in your own vehicle.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by antonvs on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:02PM (#17545090)
It's a loophole. Lawyers for the big rental car companies are frantically scrambling to update their rental agreements as we speak.

"Renter agrees not to transport nuclear material, chemical weapons..."

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by Analemma_ on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:08PM (#17545145)
Take a look sometime at the history of storing and transporting nuclear material in the US and see if you ever sleep again. The combination locks set to 000000, the dropped wrenches almost blowing a hole in North Carolina, the senior officers getting drunk in Moscow bars... the list goes on.

Then remember that these are just the declassified stories from the US, and that there’s probably even more hair-raising tales from other countries and/or still classified.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by ryanmercer on Monday July 16, 2018 @08:42PM (#17546408)
I don't care about sloppy combination locks or omg-I-almost-launched-a-retaliation-strike-at-a-flock-of-geese, I care about a commercial rental vehicle being used that you know, I might rent some day and drive.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by wahern on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:14PM (#17545632)
I think the reality of the issue is the biggest counter-argument to M.A.D. Not that the concept of M.A.D. isn't sound, per se, just that it's not a strong retort to concerns about the risk of use of nuclear weapons, or even the outbreak of nuclear war.

M.A.D. is dependent on both a strong rational actor model and as well as a strong and strict state apparatus. In reality, at the end of the day what seems to have kept us away from nuclear war is the simple fact that most people are extremely risk averse and, in the first instance, will behave rather empathetically even against enemies. That's comforting from a humanist perspective, but given the prevalence of traits like psychopathy and other pathologies in the general population not anywhere near the kinds of odds that justify the current number and administration of nuclear weapons and weapons-grade material.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by newnewpdro on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:33PM (#17545345)
Can you recommend any good books on the subject?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by syn_rst on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:40PM (#17545397)
"Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety" is pretty good. I read it a while back after seeing it linked here.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C5R7F8G?ref_=k4w_ss_dp_lp

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by vasili111 on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:31PM (#17545330)
Can you please give me a link to that stories?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by dmurray on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:34PM (#17545354)
Command and Control is a well regarded book on the subject that has been discussed here before (I haven't read it yet so I can't make a personal recommendation).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_and_Control_(book)

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by rbanffy on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:04PM (#17545109)
The question is not that - it's why the two people tasked with protecting it didn't keep it with them.

My bet is that it's a very small sample and relatively harmless.

It's more likely than not that the neighborhood will see a cluster of radioactive-exposure-caused diseases in the next few years.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by 13of40 on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:30PM (#17545325)
I think the cesium is probably more dangerous than the plutonium, because it ignites spontaneously in air and explodes in contact with water. If the crackheads who have it break open the container, we'll probably know who they are pretty quickly, especially if it's a radioactive isotope.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by rbanffy on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:49PM (#17545462)
Indeed. All we'll need to do is to follow the blue glow.

I imagine the Cesium is in form of a stable salt. I wouldn't like to transport pure radioactive Cesium.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by 13of40 on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:02PM (#17545545)
I guess I was imagining that it was the kind that comes pure in a glass vial, but it's probably more like this:

https://www.imagesco.com/geiger/radioactive-sources.html

These are a lot like the description of the plutonium sample as well.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by sulam on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:40PM (#17545794)
Wait, is it harmless or is it going to cause a cluster of diseases in the next few years?? It can't be both!
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by takk309 on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:10PM (#17545604)
I have traveled with a nuclear soil density gauge a few times and was always told to keep it in the truck at night so as to minimize my exposure. That said the case was locked and the case was then locked by two independent locks to the truck. The gauge I was using used small cesium and americium sources.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by salawat on Monday July 16, 2018 @04:36PM (#17544859)
Why not? Be happy it wasn't bid out to Meals on Wheels.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by r00fus on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:23PM (#17545267)
Not trying to be political but when in the past was incompetence at this level considered OK?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by ars on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:51PM (#17545473)
Are you serious? When? Every single moment, that's when.

People are people, they make mistakes.

Although in this case it's clearly Trump's fault.

Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by g0dg0d on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:27PM (#17545306)
Ummm why was plutonium allowed to be transported in a contractors car?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by doctorRetro on Monday July 16, 2018 @04:20PM (#17544735)
It's not a question of where it is, but when it is.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by wizardforhire on Monday July 16, 2018 @04:57PM (#17545046)
Insert plot device for mid eighties popular film franchise.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by stevenwoo on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:14PM (#17545197)
The 12 Monkeys TV series recently ended and it had pretty much every single time travel trope in there eventually, it was kind of awesome.
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by trhway on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:36PM (#17545374)
if it happened in Russia, i'd say that this was just a show to cover the sale of the plutonium. Never let good plutonium go waste :)
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by whyGaard on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:30PM (#17545327)
Are you serious? You can just load up a rented car with plutonium? There's not something in the ToS to prevent that?
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by atVelocet on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:36PM (#17545370)
I guess Doc Brown needed some fuel for the flux capacitor...
Re:Government Employees Had Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stolen F... by pasbesoin on Monday July 16, 2018 @05:06PM (#17545127)
One example of what continues to concern me about nuclear technology -- energy and its large-scale use, in particular.

The technology may work just fine, when well-managed.

The human capacity for managing it, repeatedly proves itself incapable. And human history does not give me a lot of hope for that changing.

In this case, samples like these are essential for science. Heads need to roll, figuratively if not literally, to impress upon those remaining that you do not cheap out nor lazy out on your job.

And, for the money and management part, the trail needs to be chased upward, including to Congress. People who enable this need to be forced out of responsibility.