News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ESLint compromised, may have stolen your credentials by Kalium on Thursday July 12, 2018 @04:12PM (#17518210)
You're absolutely right! People should hold off on unmerited attacks on those working hard to solve genuinely difficult problems.

Yet, is it perhaps possible that tying together build and distribution systems is not an unsolved or unsolvable problem? Bundling build processes with source packages is not a novel notion or even a novel approach. Builds being reproducible is similarly not a novel idea.

Or, to put it another way, is it possible that working hard is not a good explanation for other-than-optimal solutions when other options are known?

Re:ESLint compromised, may have stolen your credentials by ubernostrum on Thursday July 12, 2018 @06:27PM (#17519140)
There's a reason I picked numpy/scipy as examples. Among popular Python packages, they're among the genuinely hardest to build from source. You need several non-Python dependencies, including multiple language build toolchains, to get a working build, and need to dive into notes on things like ABI compatibility between different FORTRAN compilers in order to make sure what you're doing will work.

So, setting up something like a PyPI -- again, because that's what I'm familiar with -- that "just" adds the feature of building the packages on machines owned by the package repo is not exactly a simple thing. And PyPI currently hosts over 1M different released packages, so take that number into account when figuring the complexity of all the different things it might have to support.

Or, to put it another way, is it possible that working hard is not a good explanation for other-than-optimal solutions when other options are known?

Or, to put it another way, is it possible that people who leave drive-by "helpful" "suggestions" in comment threads about package repositories vastly underestimate what they're asking for, and often don't even really understand the problem domain?

Re:ESLint compromised, may have stolen your credentials by Kalium on Thursday July 12, 2018 @09:04PM (#17519826)
> There's a reason I picked numpy/scipy as examples. Among popular Python packages, they're among the genuinely hardest to build from source.

For context, I wrote my comment with awareness of the level of complexity that exists.

> Or, to put it another way, is it possible that people who leave drive-by "helpful" "suggestions" in comment threads about package repositories vastly underestimate what they're asking for, and often don't even really understand the problem domain?

You're right! It's absolutely possible that driveby snarky suggestions are not helpful in any way! It's also perhaps possible that there is a point to be made and perhaps a nasty-but-avoidable failure scenario.

There is, after all, a distinction to be made between problems that are complex and problems that are unsolvable. The general-purpose problem of building packages is, as you say, incredibly complex and difficult. It's worth considering that it might not be unsolvable. After all, every single package in PyPI got built somehow.

Which is to say one doesn't set out to bolt a build system onto a package repo system. One bolts a repo system onto a build system, because then it's an (easier) versioning and binary blob distribution problem when you have a reliable chain of trust.

Re:ESLint compromised, may have stolen your credentials by seandougall on Thursday July 12, 2018 @05:22PM (#17518731)
This is certainly true, and the statement that NPM is _run by_ "morons" is, while immature in its phrasing, at least potentially aiming toward a legitimate point.

However, the post in question also labels NPM's _users_ in broad strokes as "morons", which can make no such claim of legitimacy. It's just a puerile, baseless insult that is devoid of content and detrimental to the poster's credibility.