Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by danielnicollet on Saturday October 02, 2010 @05:00PM
(#1751332)
Corporations are not people - that's commons sense - and by allowing them the rights enjoyed by human beings, it gives shareholders a compounded right to influence government:
- through their own human vote,
- through the power lobbying, which allows them to not only influence votes in congress but even to initiate legislative cycles with laws which are usually written by a lobbyist or a former lobbyist in the staff of a congressman.
Excuse my tone, but please wake up people! I am ready to do something about it beyond voting (some sort of activism). Are you?
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by dctoedt on Saturday October 02, 2010 @05:47PM
(#1751433)
Try a thought experiment: Imagine that "Google Inc." had no legal meaning except as a convenient identifier for a collection of individuals -- viz., Google's stockholders -- acting in concert.
A) Should Congress be able to restrict the right of those people to hire professional advocates to petition Congress for the redress of their (real or imagined) grievances?
How would a "no" answer be reconciled with the First Amendment passage quoted above?
B) If yes, should the shareholders have the right to vote to designate some of their number -- viz., Google's board of directors -- to decide what specific policies will be advocated on behalf of the shareholders?
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by ericd on Sunday October 03, 2010 @02:41AM
(#1752244)
It's not just a collection of people, though - almost all of its power is concentrated in the hands of an extremely small number of people, who can force everyone to act in concert according to their own will.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by arvinjoar on Sunday October 03, 2010 @07:07AM
(#1752498)
So if a group of people have voluntarily agreed to incorporate, could that be called force, ever? I don't see how a "small number of people" can "force everyone to act in concert" when they have voluntarily incorporated i.e. allocated some of their capital or labor to some other party.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by ericd on Sunday October 03, 2010 @08:12PM
(#1754068)
The executives determine the entire direction of the company. The people at the bottom are generally there to make a livelihood, not to endorse the political ideas of those at the top. A decision by those executives should not be considered the will of that entire company, for political purposes.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by danielnicollet on Sunday October 03, 2010 @09:39PM
(#1754231)
I agree 200%. If anyone thinks that corporate governance has anything of a democracy, they've missed the point.
I actually think that corporations must not be democracies. It's a good thing that they are somewhat authoritarian because modern democracies are not efficient enough and too bureaucratic for many economic activities.
On the other hand some societal issues are too morally essential to be run by authoritarian corporate rulers. That's exactly why I want these people out of politics. Right now they have way to much political clout through lobbying.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by _delirium on Saturday October 02, 2010 @07:23PM
(#1751615)
I could imagine a "yes" answer that still restricts what a specific legal organization can do. For example, the collection of individuals behind "Google, Inc." could hire a professional political advocate... but perhaps they wouldn't be allowed to do so via the specific legal vehicle "Google Inc.", which is only chartered by the state to serve particular commercial purposes. The individuals would remain free to take up collections for their lobbying efforts outside the framework of that specific legal entity.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by rosser on Saturday October 02, 2010 @05:13PM
(#1751369)
Corporations are not people
The US Supreme Court has a slightly different opinion on that question.
Re:Google's CEO: 'The Laws Are Written by Lobbyists'
by danielnicollet on Sunday October 03, 2010 @09:45PM
(#1754247)
So what? The supreme court sometimes doesn't agree with me. And sometimes the supreme court changes its mind. Do you take all the supreme court says for an absolute and intangible truth. The supreme court hears cases because it does think it needs to be consulted and it does think it desserves to keep building common law on the basis of new cases. I made mine above. My case, that is ;-)
From the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people ... to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Suppose we posited that corporations per se have no rights, only people do. Even so, the individuals who work for a corporation, or own shares in it, would still have that First Amendment right.