" elevators, convenience stores etc. Red light cameras are everywhere. I haven't seen a backlash."

Because those cameras are not used to track you, nor are you identified in those videos, nor is that data generally shared with anyone, and in most cases not the government.

In some areas, i.e. highways in LA, they do track license plates, and there is backlash and at least concern.

A 'timed security camera' is barely related to the idea of 'ubiquitous cameras that identify you and track your movements in a government DB and input into a social credit score' a system I might add citizens have no recourse to alter.

> Because those cameras are not used to track you, nor are you identified in those videos, nor is that data generally shared with anyone, and in most cases not the government.

Not yet.

>>> " elevators, convenience stores etc. Red light cameras are everywhere. I haven't seen a backlash."

>> Because those cameras are not used to track you, nor are you identified in those videos, nor is that data generally shared with anyone, and in most cases not the government.

> Not yet.

That an ominous-sounding, yet totally empty and meaningless response. Most of those cameras are privately owned and operated, and would be incredibly difficult integrate into a centralized state surveillance system. We're mostly talking systems you can buy yourself at Costco:

https://www.costco.com/Night-Owl-8-Channel-5MP-Extreme-HD-DV...

Furthermore, a "backlash" in the case of cameras in "elevators, convenience stores etc." would have to be a backlash against private photography.

Looks like I was optimistic:

A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE (techcrunch.com), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17502925

The vast majority of cameras in the US aren't feeding centralized recording/storage/analysis/monitoring centers. The $90 1080p cameras in your local 7-11 are probably feeding a box with a few 3TB HDDs in it on a shelf in the back room. Quite the opposite in China.

I have attended meetings discussing IoT and at one, the observation was made many of the cameras are deployed by private individuals, not the state. Private individuals want to surveil their own surroundings.

I can't explain why, I don't live in China. But I do notice many buildings in the cities I visit have thick strong window bars even up above the 5th floor. Maybe there is a strong concern about local petty crime?

I certainly don't disagree there is state surveillance, but I think you should be wary of assuming all devices sold in China as IoT web connected cameras are state cameras.

I suppose that strong bar on 5th floor may be a means to keep people inside, not prevent invasion from outside.

That is, it might be a safety measure preventing falling from a window. E.g. windows in my apartment used to have state-mandated bars because my daughter was small, and had to be prevented from falling from a window.

I am amused that such statement is even possible, as if, someone just lost their common sense and start to reason China in a way that is exactly opposite of what they believed to be common sense.

To be fair, I spent first 24 years of my life in China. Your idea were never appeared in any form of discussion when I was there. I did not even fancied about such explanation.

All in all, I assume you want to have a reasonable discussion.

To your point, no, those bars are not for preventing staff falling.

I'm not assuming that - there are undoubtedly a huge number of privately owned cameras in China, as there are just about anywhere else in the world that people can afford to put 802.3af/PoE cameras stuck somewhere on a wall, fed from one cat5e cable, that cost $65 to $120 a piece. But as for cameras in major public locations with pedestrian traffic, I would bet that a much higher percentage of cameras in China are actually owned/controlled by a government entity than in the US.

Not being able to say in the US right now, I read that in the UK, private cameras are installed for profit and sell a feed to the police.

There are three levels of police in most jurisdictions worldwide: federal state and local. the US is no different, and putting devices on street poles typically demands compliance with planning law, and I suspect in any economy with cameras on light poles or sign posts by roads, its state actors.

The UK is either the most, or the second-most surveilled economy in the world. Not western world, worldwide. Cameras per head of population are increadibly high.

Your faith in 'old glory' is touching. I suspect, its misplaced.

> But I do notice many buildings in the cities I visit have thick strong window bars even up above the 5th floor.

Thieves will rappel down from the roof, so no floor is really safe without the bars.

I lack the criminal mind. I've been wondering about this, in HK, Beijing, Jakarta, KL, Sau Paulo, Buenos Aires, unable to work out what he threat risk was that high.

Now I know: the intersection of thief, and rock-climber.